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Great News! Mods already surfacing!
Darkestedge  posted on Nov 16, 2008 5:39:29 PM - Report post

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I agree with what has been said thus far. A game is meant to sell. If it doesn't sell, the developer gets no money, their prospects of making another game diminish and the chances of finding a good producer diminish too. Thus the budget gets lowered and the game gets worse, doesn't sell etc etc... the cycle continues.

With this in mind, a game company must do everything it can to please the public and sell its product. But you cannot please everyone. Fallout has quite a cult following, but it isn't necessarily a massive player base. For a game to really survive and make a profit it must sell to the wider audience, which, sadly sometimes treads on the toes of more hardcore fans of the previous fallout series.

I personally love fallout. All of them, (yes including fallout tactics) because the fallout series was gritty, gory and nasty, yet had plenty of black humour to make me smile at. which in a sense IS the 'true experience'...Of fallout.

Each and every experience will be different from person to person so to define whether having a bucket of gore and sex thrown in makes a game realistic and true to life? No. At the end of the day, we are comparing a game to true life. There is no nuclear holocaust as of yet. There are no laser rifles and super mutants roaming the land so in the end, we have to ask ourselves what is a true experience?

The medal of honor series was well know for having no blood and swearing(i think) up until the most recent example. Yet didn't you find that MOHAA Omaha beach landing or the COD Stalingrad river crossing/charge enthralling and slightly disturbing at the same time? Why is that? It's just pixels on a screen. Yet we know it happened. Although Fallout is fiction, it has some basis in reality, showing human behaviour and such. It is also an RPG, allowing the player to do what they wish. nomatter how good or unethical or morally wrong it is. That is the experience in my opinion, but experience is a very personal thing to everyone. But as i stated, the game has to have limits. These limits are put in place to save the game from possible failure. There are certainly things i dislike about fallout 3, many of which are stated. Yet i love the game and was enthralled by it. Could it be made better in my opinion, certainly. But that's all it is, my opinion. My personal taste. My viewpoint. And that's the thing, cant cater for everyone.

When the development kit comes out and decent mods are released, i will download them to make the game more to my liking. But no necessarily true to fallout.

Anyway i have rambled on and i think i repeated myself a few times more or less. So..yeah.

[Edited by Darkestedge, 11/16/2008 5:40:35 PM]

Gunthearth  posted on Nov 19, 2008 6:00:34 PM - Report post

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Hi, Its me again...

which just proves my point again about how much I love this series. I just wanted to write again and clear a few things up. Sadly, I am drunk AGAIN. (I common theme with me, sadly I wish for a real end of the world because I have worked with the scum of the earth and think we maybe doomed as a race the way it is).

I wanted to clear a few things up...

I play the game so I have obviously bought it.

It is my friends I am saying DON'T buy it.

Second... I NEVER condone Sexual violent depictions of graphic violence against women. I have worked with victims of sexual violence and heard stories which would make you go on a violent killing spree against the aggressors in such activities.

My point was WoW (world of Warcraft) nudie patch.... Still teen

NWN 2 You have sex the night of the BIG battle... Still teen

TOO many people say... Oh look at GTA and Other games with Nudie...... Here is a thought BAD GAME DESIGNERS.... YOU screwed YOURSELVES. They put that is their game not a 3rd party. The rules of the www.esrb.org CAN'T rerate a game based on 3rd party textures. If the game designers built in special "sexual stuff" Yes you screwed yourself... if "others" like the already nudie patch for fallout 3 do it on thier own you can tell congress, the ERSB, and every other *@#*@#^# person, look we did what we could and someone hacked our files and unless you want to give us extra funding to have a COMPLETELY server side game which allows US (the gamer company) 100% control. Their is nothing we can do about it.

That is what I meant.

Too many jump on the band wagon to blame others for thier problems and that is just in the state that U.S. families are in.

MY kid is STUPID and lite his LEGS on fire..... Must be Ozzy's fault.

My kid is STUPID he stabled his nut sack with a stable gun MUST be Jack-ass or whatver the hell shows name it is fault.

I understand that the AO tilte name is a death sentance for games. MOST U.S. stores will not carry it, and I understand that. I REALLY REALLY do. But, what I was saying if you are not willing to take that heat WHY buy the rights to the game that you know could cause you problems..... The answer, Like EVERYTHING profit. I truly understand that. I don't want a graphic visual of you screwing the ***** in Megaton. I don't. I want her to atleast say thanks for the 100 damn caps ot thanks or something. She ignores you.

Fallout 2 porn star..... MAKES NO sense. Most people can't even afford a computer to paly your "chips" on. Still in the game. Fallout 1 Pimp your spouse not pretty but in game. Falolout 2 lose the arm wrestling match with the super mutant you get a ball gag and a limp....... HHHMMMMMMM I wonder what happened. That is what I am talking about not some damn graphic show of violence against women, or for that matter anyone.

Kids... Yea, that is right I am driniking and on a roll. If you are sick of it just stop reading!! Kids, I never meant that we should show graphic horrible violence against children. You wanna see graphic horrble violence think of this a 6 year-old chained to a tree and assualt by her dad, and LEFT their for hours. (I told you I have worked with the SCUM of the earth). I was simply saying if the game designer has made it so that children can't be killed and (another sicko, Sorry if that is you) decided to make a patch that allows you to kill children again you say, look we did EVERYTHING with our current power and "THEY" hacked our game we can not be held responsible for it.

Personally, I play good characters, Paladins and such in RPG's and say I take what NPC's say with a grain of salt..... But if I was an evil character and I can KILL an entire TOWN by activiting the Atom Bomb is the heart of the town YOU can't tell me if I go back there Little Maggie is still walking around going "WoW, what just happened?" I should be D E D, dead but I am a child so I am not.

I was bashed for my comments and I am not even sure the reader truly read my messege. I was going to just take that with a grain of salt too but really thought I needed to say something more about what I meant to say. (again drinking, maybe I mispoke or typed)

I play fallout 3 daily, even with all its flaws because I am a fan. I just think a few things got missed in thier rush to cash in since thier last game was done.

200+ years.... Tons of vault issued undies....
200+ years.... Tons of light in subterrian places. (regardless of your little Pip Boy), WOW fission battieries must last FOREVER, and the feral ghouls must not mind light, WHICH they never travel into.
200+ years.... wasteland items in perwar area's... can maybe be explained once or twice but everywhere.
200+ years.... PC Flesh eaters, cause you to lose karma.
200+ years.... Such raipd weapon decay that after about 30 shots with your combat shotgun worthless BUT 200 years later, their are still hundreds of them.

200+ years.... I am still complaining, wait.... I think that is the alcky talking.... Sadly I have more *****es but frankly I am sick of ranting. I still play the game, I still have high hopes but everyday the CS is not released, the more I feel I have been abused by Bethesda Softworks.

Anyways I need more beer which I need to go get (plus I only have 660 characters left) so with that I will again say I never wanted graphic sexual violence in fallout 3 or tons of kids killing shots, BUT if you are going to put in eye-ball spewing violence in SLOW montion and other hideously violent images, a few text lines about a loving or for that matter non-loving but purely monitary transaction may not put you at as much risk as you may think.


Killa_B  posted on Nov 19, 2008 7:24:07 PM - Report post

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a lot of words a rather small message.
as i understood you, you think it's sick, if someone wants to be able to do certain things in a game, that are socially unaccepted.
but i think it's not about doing it, it's about the choice to be able to do it, if you like to.

killing children is horrible, but thats not the point.
if you play a character thats evil to the core, it kinda breaks the role if this character kills every inhabitant of a settle ment except for the children.

and if you look at the previous paragraph you will see, that i meant the game only!

next topic: ingame nudity
i searched youtube for a video of that neverwinter nights 2 sequence, but i didn't find anything.
so it simply can't be that intresting. try looking for "hot coffee". just like that. most videos you will find are about the GTA-mod.
my point in this is: if it's not popular enough to put it on youtube, it just might not be intense enough to crank up the rating.
as for the WoW nude-patch . . . well, it's UGC.
User Generated Content.
just like the "killable children"-mod for fallout 3.
UGC can NEVER change the rating of a game! or at least it shouldn't be able to.

either i terribly missunderstood your point in listing the WoW Nude-patch and the NWN2 sex-scene, or you terrible missed to make a point here.

with those two big points commented, i come to a more relaxed part.
the "200+ years"-part.
i also wondered why there are still mailboxes with unopened letters in them.
i wondered why there are safes in ruined houses with rather easy locks that still were closed shut and with mediocre valuable stuff in them.
i explained to myself that those computer terminals had fission- or fusion-batteries in them, so they are able to work after such a long time.
i asked myself why there are carwrecks all over the place that had "working" energysources in them. why did nobody scavenge and utilize them? or at least take the metal to fix certain things . . .

altho i do have an answer to your question why there are so many weapons out in the wastelands that fall appart after a handfull of shots!
there was a WAR. they had the power of the atom for destructive AND productive causes.
so i guess they produced all kinds of civil and even more military supplys.

and the answer to those questions i asked previously is simple.
the game would be not as half as much fun to play if everything were "realistic".
all the stuff you would be able to find would be broken either by usage or by time and nature.
the stuff you could buy would be in bad shape and IMMENSLY expensive.
buildings wouldn't be anymore. they would be reclaimed by nature, either by flora and founa or by natural forces like earthquakes and weather.

the people in fallout 3 arn't particulary productive. they keep the stuff they have working as good as possible, but they don't build anything new. except for shacks and the like.

taking the people and the realistic "world degradation" there wouldn't be anything to do after 200 years.

so just be happy you have this cool world stuffed with all sorts of junk, people and adventures!

and for the ranting about all the evil stuff people want to do in this GAME, ask yourself in what kind of world you want to live.
a world where people get a broad base and can adapt stuff to it they want to see, or a world where every and any kind creativity is drowned in the very begining, because something controverse could arise.

do you really want to live in a world where no cameras are sold, because you COULD use it to produce childporn?

i do NOT want to offend or attack you in ANY way!
i respect your opinion, even if i don't share it.
but in return i would like to ask the same of you.

[Edited by Killa_B, 11/19/2008 7:27:38 PM]

Darkestedge  posted on Nov 21, 2008 9:44:36 AM - Report post

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I'm have to agree with Killa_B. Firstly, NWN 2 you didn't see any sex, it just insinuates that they are gonna have sex. By the age of 11 all kids should know what sex basically is via sex education at school. Not to say that we should shove a porn video into the television and make them watch, but kids these days aren't stupid. They are exposed to so much rubbish it's unbelievable.

Also, more on topic, fallout as stated is a game. An RPG to be precise. If an rpg only allows you to role play a specific choice, its not a choice, its linear. If i wanted linear, id play any old FPS. It's all about choice, being allowed to do as many good/evil things as you want to play as. Typically, i always play as a good player first time around, then an evil player, usually playing to extremes if possible. then perhaps the 3rd time anyway i wish. Does it mean I'm gonna go on a killing spree because i decided to play an evil character? No...

Another point that Killa_B said, is that degradation on buildings and the environment after a nuclear holocaust. Much would be degraded through natural flora and events, thought even after 200 years, it wouldn't be completely gone. I think it would take longer, but saying that. I think the urban decay was done very well in fallout 3.

The final point made is about censorship. And i agree, too much censorship is a bad thing. If it can be done, it will be. And that's all I'll say on that matter.

Anyway, this has strayed completely off topic, thought it was interesting to read. This topic is suppose to be about the SDK...i think..ive lost track.

Killa_B  posted on Nov 21, 2008 5:57:00 PM - Report post

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the choice you mentioned is definitively very important on games like this.
but the reason i don't use the childkilling mod is, because i don't want to worry about kids being killed by random encounters while i'm away. this mod in particular is not finished, because it sets ALL children as non-essential. so even questrelated characters can be killed, thus rendering certain ways impossible.
but enough with that topic.
i think the discussed it thoroughly enough.

back to the choices.
i got a bit ****ed as i played the game the first time. i had fawkes with me, and he got me the GECK. so he is pretty much radiation prove.
i wanted him to go into the chamber and start the machine, but he told me: "bla bla, it's a thing you have to do, bla bla, i can't do it for you, bla bla"
why? why can't i tell him to go in there?
that is one of the few occasions where i wanted to have more different choices.
but it's just a thing that isn't in the game, and i guess it's okay that way. there are enough other things in there to do. =)

regarding the degradation i remember some article i read somewhere on the net.
in it some guy stated that, if men disappeared from one day to the other, nature would reclaim the large metropoles like new york and the like in less than century.
without the maintanance buildings would fall appart pretty quickly.
but before that even happens, there would be explosions and fires from the gas pipes running through the city and buildings, destroying large parts of the cityscape.
then there would be small plantlife like moss, farn, grass growing all over, followed by bushes and short after that there would be trees.
a funny shortmovie made by a german film academy kinda shows this process. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj3rT_yYCw8 Link

i guess things we build are a lot less "Built to last", than we might think.

but i have to admit, that i have no idea how things would be after so much radiation had been poured all over the landscape.

lets see where this thread heads next, since we hijacked it from "wheeeeeee, there are new mods out allready" to "killing children is evil!!!!111". =)

Chris_3413  posted on Nov 22, 2008 3:57:36 AM - Report post

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just to add my 5c worth on this hijacked thread there is one main thing that bothers me.

Now, I may be wrong but if I remember the intro right, the war is supposed to have happened in the latter 21st century..
So why is all the fashion and technology(aside from weapons/armor) looking like it belongs somewhere between the 1950's and early 1980's.
I mean just look at the types of cars that are wrecked everywhere and Green-screen terminals with command line interface?
even the billboards and posters look like 1950's style

Dosent look very 21st century.

EDIT: just started a new game to check and yeah it clearly states the year 2077 as the year the bombs fell.

[Edited by Chris_3413, 11/22/2008 3:58:27 AM]

Kaje  posted on Nov 22, 2008 4:22:31 AM - Report post

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It's because it's an alternate reality. It's not THIS reality!
Killa_B  posted on Nov 22, 2008 7:09:56 AM - Report post

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fallout has takes place in an alternate reality.
the timeline splits in the late 1940's and early 1950's.
thats the reason there are certain buildings in DC, but others are missing.

you can get more infos on that, if you get the making of of the game.

its important to this game, to have this "retro future"-style, since it has been part of the series since the first game.

[Edited by Killa_B, 11/22/2008 7:11:19 AM]

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