Dave The Diver Message Board  

Obviously each hotfix was fixing different small issues, yeah ofc it sucks for trainers and cheats, but as a practice for regular consumers they are doing a fantastic job fixing so man things so quickly.

[Edited by DaCrazyBeggar, 7/8/2023 7:24:32 PM]

I think the amount of vitriol against the devs in this thread is hilarious, literally every patch this week was minor quality of life issues or a random bug that could happen that's fixed with literally just a reload.
The game released in a fully complete state, and for regular consumers this is amazing, you guys need to remember that trainer and cheat users are not the target audience.
They even apologized for the patches because of the frequent downloads, when the downloads are nothing compared to AAA 100 gig plus games patching 30 gigs at a time.
In all honesty, anyone ragging on these devs for patching quickly is directly making the gaming industry a worse place by discouraging good business practices.

Slightly OT but I would prefer quality over quantity. The reason that they even need that many patches in the first place is because they aren't careful with their work. If they had paid more attention to it, they wouldn't need that many or that frequently. There are games that don't have that many patches because the devs are more careful with their work and take their time to make sure they get as many things right as possible out of the door. Else they accumulate the fixes then release it in a single patch because the issues aren't that critical enough to need addressing immediately in piecemeal fashion.

The advent of Steam has made it more convenient to put out patches but I feel that game devs have become more lax in QC when it comes to releases due to the "well, we can always fix it later" mentality. They even need hotfixes for their hotfixes. As such, I don't view it as a necessarily good thing but a double-edged one.

Regardless, every couple of days is clearly unsustainable in terms of trainer updates and even certain mods.

[Edited by Gangreenator, 7/9/2023 5:13:25 AM]

This type of response shows a fundamental lack of understanding how software development works

The teams I've worked with were constantly QCing their own work and handing off code to dedicated QA. What a lot of people that don't develop code do not understand is that the PC ecosystem is so diverse that there is literally an infinite amount of system configurations. No amount of QC/QA work will find 100% of the bugs 100% of the time, nor can they account for 100% of fixes not creating new issues simply due to the nature of the ecosystem.

This doesn't even take into account just how complex software development has become, let alone in just game development.

Yes, Steam has made it far easier to push out updates/patches/hotfixes, but I can tell you that almost every studio out there (AAA's included) doesn't push out broken things on purpose simply to take a "we'll fix it later" mentality because it's the most surefire way to kill any potential revenue from the product over the long term.

I wouldn't say that Mintrocket doesn't have big names backing it (Nexon), but they are still a fairly new studio and this is their first shipped title. I can give them a break when it comes to pushing out fixes, especially when it comes to the fact that trainers and mods are definitely not the first-thought audience.

Just want to be clear up front: I don't expect this to be fixed for a while, given the update frequency of the game right now. I just wanted to report this so other people can be aware, and maybe get a laugh.

When using the Game Speed option, sometimes when you toggle the option off, Dave's speed will go back to normal, but the CAMERA speed goes to super-slow-mo, such that Dave can swim off the screen. It's hilarious. Toggling Game Speed back on speeds the camera back up in relation to Dave, but it always stays in slow-mo after toggling it off, and will stay that way until the game is restarted.

I laughed a lot, restarted my game and decided to let you all know.

I didn't say that it has to be 100% bug free. Rather, my point of contention is the frequency/quantity of patches, even to the point of needing hotfixes for their hotfixes. A team with more due diligence would produce one that does not need so many patches out of the door because any bugs in their game are either not that many and/or they are not that critical that they have to fix them in piecemeal fashion asap.

It is a fact that if a game needs that many patches within a short time, it shows a lack of care (even if not intentional) towards their own work. One does not need to be in game dev to be able to draw that conclusion because it is a general thing that applies to all lines of work.

I would say that "release first, fix later" is very much the mindset of current game devs due to the many egregious examples. Cyberpunk for instance. I don't think anyone in the dev team or even QA could have said in good conscience that whatever they had at that time was in a good enough state to ship but ship they did because they reasoned that they could just apologize and fix it. They didn't really care about "tanking potential revenue" when they pushed it out of the door did they? To their credit, they took the time to consolidate and test fixes rather than quickly releasing each one at a time.....imagine if they had done it piecemeal like Mintrocket, I think the game would be on its 1000th patch by now and the trainer probably retired.

[Edited by Gangreenator, 7/9/2023 10:37:20 PM]

You really don't have a grasp on software development, let alone game development, if your mentality is what you displayed here.

Yes, methodology and more robust systems in place can alleviate the need for numerous patches/hotfixes, but releasing more patches/hotfixes doesn't make something worse, nor does it mean that there's a lack of care. What it does show is the vast complexities when it comes to developing code, and not much more than that.

Yes, there are plenty of examples of teams out there that push out product with the mentality of 'fix it later', but you can attest that most of those are on products that are, for all intents and purposes, either less complex or manned but hundreds of people.

Your Cyberpunk example is also something that doesn't really grasp the concept of software development. Was it a buggy mess? Yes, much like all of CDPR's games on release, but the reasoning behind it being such a mess was because of the need to develop it for previous generation consoles alongside PC and current-gen. Almost all of the major problems arose when it came to the last-gen consoles.

Take Bethesda games as an example...they tend to release mostly-baked products, leaving a great deal of work for after-release and modders to take up, not because of a lack of care, but because of the complexities and the need to let things go to the wild before they can gather better information to fix things extensively.

It's not unlike the teams here do for the trainer development, albeit on a much more direct scope. There are countless times when it'll work flawlessly internally, but the moment it goes public it turns out X or Y function doesn't work as intended or at all...does this mean that the CH staff don't place care in their own work, or does it mean that at best software development at any scale is tricky?

I just wanted to let you know that one of the recent patches seems to have changed something where the unlimited sub power option is concerned and is failing & giving this message. The rest of the trainer options all seem to be working as normal.

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