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Warning for SSD users - Denuvo kills SSD
 
Jaks  posted on Nov 18, 2014 3:06:33 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by DABhand

quote:
originally posted by Ashar

i tested this theory with slightly worrying results. There is a program called SSDLife that scans your ssd, and works out the average lifespan. I ran it before playing and after playing. And after playing for about 3 hours my ssd's estimated life was reduced by 8 days.

Does your SSD have your OS on it? If so did you set your User/Temp/Program File folders to another drive?

Also the page file too.


Tell me if this is wrong. Buddy of mine said moving the Temp file location to another drive is a great idea for the smaller SSD's but for larger SSD's - like my 1TB? - it's not really needed?

That and he said with larger SSD's being used for gaming, moving temp files to another standard HDD adds another wait state that you'd really not rather have on a gaming pc you're trying to make as quick as possible. Smaller SSD's yes, larger ones not so much.

Agree - Disagree?






[Edited by element5, 11/18/2014 3:08:10 PM]

 
fox23vang  posted on Nov 18, 2014 6:20:47 PM - Report post

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Ive heard endless trash talk about Denuvo DRM and im not surprised its capable of lowering the life span of SSD.

[Edited by fox23vang, 11/18/2014 6:21:12 PM]

 
DABhand  posted on Nov 18, 2014 7:40:06 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by element5

quote:
originally posted by DABhand

quote:
originally posted by Ashar

i tested this theory with slightly worrying results. There is a program called SSDLife that scans your ssd, and works out the average lifespan. I ran it before playing and after playing. And after playing for about 3 hours my ssd's estimated life was reduced by 8 days.

Does your SSD have your OS on it? If so did you set your User/Temp/Program File folders to another drive?

Also the page file too.


Tell me if this is wrong. Buddy of mine said moving the Temp file location to another drive is a great idea for the smaller SSD's but for larger SSD's - like my 1TB? - it's not really needed?

That and he said with larger SSD's being used for gaming, moving temp files to another standard HDD adds another wait state that you'd really not rather have on a gaming pc you're trying to make as quick as possible. Smaller SSD's yes, larger ones not so much.

Agree - Disagree?


[Edited by element5, 11/18/2014 3:08:10 PM]

Disagree, temp files are constantly written to, like all SSDs files are not overwritten but have to be deleted and copied again, so it takes longer plus reduces the lifetime of the NAND chips.

You can do so if you like, but I would advise against it and moving all folders that get written to constantly to another drive.

 
crusaderoath  posted on Nov 18, 2014 7:50:57 PM - Report post

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I don't normally get involved in technical posts like this.

I simply want to forward what 2 hours of internet searching has turned up:

1. All definitive testing done by people other than the OP referenced at the start of this thread show no evidence of block-level wear.

2. Denuvo, which has been used in Fifa 15 and Lords of the Fallen, is complained about by people, but not targeted for degredation or damage of hard drives. In reference to FIfa 15, performance was not mentioned as a primary drawback. In reference to lords of the fallen, it just seems to be a poorly programmed game with several optimization issues.

3. SSD testing done with a variety of non-accredited programs show wildly varying lifespans and wear counts in regards to program execution. Some seem to count the windows filesystem total byte read/write counts (This is NOT accurate) as an estimate of how much is actually being written and/or read at a given moment. For example, loading a game which has a rough file size for the world of 2GB will show up as well over 7GB of read, and a moderate amount of write (Used when accessing the MFT and the journal; both of which show incorrect values of write counts).

4. The one test done using a legitimate tool for this kind of measure (Crystal Disk Info I believe) showed nearly no overall write count increase at all. And only a moderate amount of overall data read. This is in line with what we understand of how games like this run.

Unrelated to the SSD issues of this game is a running bash of the Denuvo DRM affecting CPU usage. When I dug into this claim I found that most people with the problem are running older hardware with cutting edge SSD drives. This is a common problem which I have run across myself: Reading from the SSD uses a disproportional amount of CPU. This is due to poor driver compatibility between the SSD, the motherboard chipset, and the CPU. Current gen (Mid to late 2014) seem to have completely eliminated these issues and as such do not show up in any of the sites complaining about it.

So, TLDR: Denuvo is not evil. It is drm. (Outdated drivers will kill your system faster)

Edit: The post referenced by Rudolph is the only website supporting this claim in the least. No other technical site agrees with, or even is willing to substantiate the claim.

[Edited by crusaderoath, 11/18/2014 7:58:20 PM]

 
SL4T  posted on Nov 19, 2014 2:25:37 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by crusaderoath

I don't normally get involved in technical posts like this.

I simply want to forward what 2 hours of internet searching has turned up:

1. All definitive testing done by people other than the OP referenced at the start of this thread show no evidence of block-level wear.

2. Denuvo, which has been used in Fifa 15 and Lords of the Fallen, is complained about by people, but not targeted for degredation or damage of hard drives. In reference to FIfa 15, performance was not mentioned as a primary drawback. In reference to lords of the fallen, it just seems to be a poorly programmed game with several optimization issues.

3. SSD testing done with a variety of non-accredited programs show wildly varying lifespans and wear counts in regards to program execution. Some seem to count the windows filesystem total byte read/write counts (This is NOT accurate) as an estimate of how much is actually being written and/or read at a given moment. For example, loading a game which has a rough file size for the world of 2GB will show up as well over 7GB of read, and a moderate amount of write (Used when accessing the MFT and the journal; both of which show incorrect values of write counts).

4. The one test done using a legitimate tool for this kind of measure (Crystal Disk Info I believe) showed nearly no overall write count increase at all. And only a moderate amount of overall data read. This is in line with what we understand of how games like this run.

Unrelated to the SSD issues of this game is a running bash of the Denuvo DRM affecting CPU usage. When I dug into this claim I found that most people with the problem are running older hardware with cutting edge SSD drives. This is a common problem which I have run across myself: Reading from the SSD uses a disproportional amount of CPU. This is due to poor driver compatibility between the SSD, the motherboard chipset, and the CPU. Current gen (Mid to late 2014) seem to have completely eliminated these issues and as such do not show up in any of the sites complaining about it.

So, TLDR: Denuvo is not evil. It is drm. (Outdated drivers will kill your system faster)

Edit: The post referenced by Rudolph is the only website supporting this claim in the least. No other technical site agrees with, or even is willing to substantiate the claim.

[Edited by crusaderoath, 11/18/2014 7:58:20 PM]

Thanks Crusader, that was informative.

 
Rudolph  posted on Nov 19, 2014 3:01:07 AM - Report post

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I have changed the first few lines in the original post for you.
Unfortunately I can not change the topic.

So, since this is a controversial topic, let's say that the new Denuvo Anti-Tamper (not the same as DRM!) technology MIGHT/COULD wear down your SSD cells, until real technicians can scientifically replicate the claims done by some random internet guys.

 
DABhand  posted on Nov 19, 2014 3:35:47 AM - Report post

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No, might or could is not correct here, Denuvo can NOT destroy SSDs or cells. Like I said, it only protects processes resident in the Memory. It has nothing to do with SSDs or HDDs.

[Edited by DABhand, 11/19/2014 3:36:20 AM]

 
Skadex  posted on Nov 19, 2014 9:29:01 PM - Report post

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This was proven to be fake the garbage DRM increases piracy but doesn't do anything bad other than being on your PC. linustechtips.com/main/topic/253431-denuvo-drm-destroys-ssd/page-3
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