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knightpress  posted on Jul 01, 2013 9:03:00 PM - Report post

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Indeed, I understand if the developers "don't feel like screwing with it", and I don't even take exception or offense to it in the least.

Frankly, when I'm done with a project I more or less shelve it and that's it, so I can relate in that way to developers who don't want external calls from the community to "fix" what someone's fiddling with things has broken.

That being said, when a developer has no intention of allowing modification of one of their games, even if they express that intention, then that is their right to choose. However in that same breath, if persistent players/modders work their way into a game to change things around to their liking, the developer actively and aggressively dismantling their progress is a really despicable move.

I of course have experienced game patches that just happened to monkey with something, and all it needed was a slight tweak to get back to where you were, so there was very likely no intentional detriment to players/modders there, but on the other hand Empire: Total War for instance had multiple patches released specifically to stop modders from modding in the "extra units" that were supposed to be exclusive to special editions of the game.

I don't begrudge anyone that has a collector's edition or whathaveyou that has a special do-dad in it, but if the actual gizmo is contained within every single copy of the game ever made, and all a player has to do is open a SINGLE FILE and change a ZERO to a ONE, in order to enable that unit, frankly that is an epic level "charlie foxtrot" on the part of the developer, not any failing of the modder to discover such a simple and flimsy wall.

So what did every player with even the slightest ability to mod do with their fresh new copy of Empire: Total War? Well a HUGE portion of them enabled the special/bonus units. SEGA of course didn't like that at all, because it didn't get them as much money and basically made everyone's game into a collector's edition with pre-order bonuses from every store at once...

If they had intended that exclusivity to be enforceable, they shouldn't have made it "on-disk DLC".

Anyway, when SEGA had enough of their own debacle, they patched up the game to disable such modding, and then just as soon as they could they simply abandoned Empire:TW anyway for Napoleon:TW, more or less leaving Empire unfinished.

Hyperion501  posted on Jul 02, 2013 6:45:38 AM - Report post

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Yes, that on disk DLC is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen within gaming. Reminds me of fable 3 and its pre released Dye pack dlc. They made certain dye colours for the game that they later took out to sell to us later.... the worst part? they added a description saying "The long awaited dye palette with black dye included" they released it on day one by mistake and then withdrew it. So it was not long awaited content as we did not even know it was missing yet, this from a company I thought was ok.
knightpress  posted on Jul 02, 2013 9:19:59 PM - Report post

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Oh heaven's don't even get me started on Peter Molyneux and his antics over the years...

I remember when he was owned lock, stock, and barrel by EA and back when he was making populous games... Perhaps on the day before he sold his soul...

Then he struck out on his own with Bullfrog and make Dungeon Keeper games, which hold up to this very day and have even seen a couple homage games in recent months come out (not sure how good they are though)...

But then he decided money was more important than integrity, and the downward spiral I personally believe began with "Populous The Beginning" (aka "populous 3" )... It was ok, but ultimately a lobotomized experience.

Then he goes on to form Lionhead studios, and from there he's done nothing but promise the sun and the moon on every one of his projects, Black and White, the fable games, B&W2, and so on, and they -ALWAYS- fall well short of the mark and leave out vast parts of what was talked about ad infinitum and were used as considerable selling points for the game, only to be completely removed from the game.

It really is a shame, some of his proposals interest me quite a bit... I was a huge supporter of "B.C." a prehistoric "cave man versus the world" game, albeit in an anachronistic setting and it was a crushing blow to hear it was canceled...

But again, it's more about money than quality with Molyneux anymore... His current project "Godus" or however it's spelled looks to be a complete and utter disaster. It's like he decided to take Black and White, throw out all the things that make it half decent, and tack on a glorified population-spam mechanic where the great goal is to just make a lot of flat and open ground for "your chosen tribe" to just build more houses on, to make more people, to build more houses, and so on and so on...

That'd be entertaining for a few minutes as an iPad game, but to even suggest it as a fully realised title is not just pedantic but depressing that he's apparently fallen so far that he can't even make a good "God game" anymore when he already has the rights to the code of existing God games that he could just copy parts of and tack on some extra bits...

[Edited by knightpress, 7/2/2013 9:20:11 PM]

Hyperion501  posted on Jul 03, 2013 3:40:05 AM - Report post

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Wow, I had forgotten about BC! for the old Xbox if memory serves? played the demo and followed the game like a religion, then planned to assassinate Peter when he could not be bothered to make it anymore.
There are a lot of things in the wold that need fixing more than the games industry, in fact it is at the bottom of the to do list of global fu*k ups, however I believe companies should be at least part accountable for their actions, games should have to be "screened" by a group of random gamers each title made before it can be released. The idea behind this is that this group can approve the game to be sold on the market, if its an all hype game or packed 80% with dlc or bugs they can refuse it and the devs must go back and make it better. I fear that if "something" is not done this stuff is only going to get worse, people talk about the injustice but bordem takes over a lot of the time so they still go and buy the game anyway... thus devs can still rake in the money.

[Edited by Hyperion501, 7/3/2013 3:42:55 AM]

knightpress  posted on Jul 03, 2013 5:27:10 PM - Report post

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I don't know how good screenings would be either... To me, a group of randomly assembled people won't likely be into many of the obscure games I like and would typically not like them and suggest "improvements" which would just dumb down the experience others like me would prefer to be complex and involved.

For instance, games like Hearts of Iron, a game like that would likely induce a coma in many gamers who prefer faster paced games. Not that I don't like fast paced games as well, I have very eclectic tastes really, but sometimes I want a game that's extremely involved, while other times I prefer a "quick fix" kind of game experience.

Moreover, it'd be like jury duty, where when you are tried by a jury of people who were not savvy enough to get out of jury duty...

Hyperion501  posted on Jul 04, 2013 2:40:45 AM - Report post

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Indeed they would have to be random people from volunteers so if you only wanted to screen RTS/Strategy games you would do them and not the next call of duty, which would be horrific if you hate FPS or you just hate that FPS.
In a way it would be similar to what steam has at the moment, search for some unreleased titles and play the alpha or beta of the game giving feedback and bug reports, however on steam the devs don't have to do anything but let you beta test for them. My point is you can see games that are awaiting release select one and f you are selected then play it all the way, submit a report and an approval or disapproval. Twas an idea anyway

[Edited by Hyperion501, 7/4/2013 10:50:39 AM]

knightpress  posted on Jul 05, 2013 7:06:37 PM - Report post

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Indeed, but as with anything, I'd rather not rely on the opinions of others for what I would like... Just as the reverse I'm confident would be true.

As per usual, the strongest vote in video game content is with your dollars.

People who complain about oodles of "rehash" titles only have their fellow gamers, perhaps even themselves, to blame... If a title sells well, a developer/publisher will obviously want to sell more, so they automatically think to sequelize it.

If it sold once, it will presumably sell twice...

DarkMandalore  posted on Jul 05, 2013 9:38:54 PM - Report post

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"We're looking at supporting modders further down the line. Currently we're focused on addressing technical issues some people are having with the game, and getting in things like Leaderboards."


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