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Villan Poll Gold Medalist - Darth Vader
 
QueenNic  posted on Aug 12, 2010 2:26:15 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by DoctorMozG

@Nic_Durron Well, yes i did read somewhere that Vader was a classic example of somekind multi-personalities disorder. Was a funny atricle. Also Palpatine was quite a fool by not even having a son and trusting in Vader so much.

[Edited by DoctorMozG, 8/12/2010 1:38:49 PM]

Palpatine trusted too much in his powers of manipulation, and failed to see how Luke would be able to bring Anakin back.

Palpatine, like the Jedi, became arrogant and overconfident.

As far as having a son goes, it's not definite that a child would be loyal to him, especially since Palpatine was so busy with politics and building his empire.

 
SuperSkyline89  posted on Aug 12, 2010 5:48:17 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by DoctorMozG

@Nic_Durron Well, yes i did read somewhere that Vader was a classic example of somekind multi-personalities disorder. Was a funny atricle. Also Palpatine was quite a fool by not even having a son and trusting in Vader so much.

[Edited by DoctorMozG, 8/12/2010 1:38:49 PM]

That's the way of the Sith.

The Sith Lord is expected to teach the apprentice all they know, and the apprentice is expected to one day become the lord by killing the master. Then they find an apprentice and the cycle repeats.

It sounds a bit ridiculous but the master knows all along that they'll be betrayed some day, but they also know the only way to keep the Sith around is to help the apprentice get to the point where they can betray them.

 
nailan  posted on Aug 12, 2010 9:04:00 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by SuperSkyline89

quote:
originally posted by DoctorMozG

However i admire Vader for killing all this worthless jedi scum. I still find him weak for kinda turning back to light side in the end. He was weak to be a real Sith lord. But he was quite a Villain indeed! All hail Lord Vader!!!

Vader turning back to the Light side doesn't prove he was weak, it proves the Dark side was weak. It's the idea of love (which is the basis of the Light side) is stronger than hate (the Dark side).

Think about it, Anakin started of as a very honourable person and became a Jedi. He was as far to the Light side as you could be, it was only Palpatine's manipulation that brought him over. In the end, he went back to the Light because that manipulation wasn't enough to overcome who he really is deep inside.

Deep down he was still that same Anakin, Palpatine just made sure he had enough leverage to keep him locked in there. Eventually something came along that would unlock him, his son Luke.

[Edited by SuperSkyline89, 8/11/2010 5:59:37 AM]

Anakins move to the dark side was not all palpatines doing.
as a child the council didnt want him trained for they saw he was not "good" enough to follow the light. He exhibited dark traits before he even met palpatine and started on his road to the dark. Palpatine did indeed help him over, but it was anakin himself that went and was on his way before the manipulation. but deep down inside he did still harbor a bit of light which did indeed make it possible for his own son to bring him back while on his deathbed. which is not a thing you would expect from the gold medalist.

And I also have a problem with you saying love is the basis for the light side. It is not. Love is forbidden in the Jedi code. In fact the begining line of thier creed states there is no emotion... Love would be a trait for the gray followers. ones who walk the line between light and dark. which is likely where anakin should have been. as he didnt exactly have the right stuff to be on either of the other sides.

And could someone please tell me how he could be considered such a bad a**. I dont see it. He blew up a planet. (on orders from someone else i may add) and he choked a few people. Oh and cut off his sons hand. am i missing anything else? I mean since he became Vader. Honestly Anakin was more bada**. Also many of the listed villans within the polls were a lot better villains.

heck jar jar was a better villain I mean without him the emperor wouldn't have even been in power. fans of star wars unite in recognizing the real villain of the star wars saga jar jar binks. haha

(note I am in no way trying to start a conflict here. I like Vader but he just isn't what everyone makes him out to be that's all I am saying.)

 
DoctorMozG  posted on Aug 12, 2010 11:48:28 PM - Report post

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@Nic_Durron That's very intresting thought , so Darth Sidious failed on his own game basicly. Also if to look back on ep1 Sidious had an apprentice Darth Maul which failed to kill Obi Wan, therefor Sidious has failed as a Master. And later he meets up a new apprentice Darth Vader which is so much more than his last, that's too probably made him feel too overconfident about himself.

@SuperSkyline89 Well i do know about Sith ways but u might think that he could kinda choose the rules he wants. He is a damn Emperor after all. He makes his own rules.

@nailan Haha, jar jar best villain? More like a best annoying villain to me And he was already called Vader when he went into Jedi temple and as we know it killing all the youngling and probably everybody else who was in temple at that time. Also he did like continue to search jedi and rebel forces around the galaxy for next 20 years and killing them after he found.

 
Shibby  posted on Aug 13, 2010 4:51:02 AM - Report post

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You forgot Count Dooku, He was after Maul/Before Vader

And I think Maul was more Sith than Vader, he just wasn't powerful enough though.

And its no surprise Vader doesn't measure up to the true Sith or whatever, don't forget he was trained as a Jedi before turning, whereas Sidious & Maul were Sith from the beginning.

 
SuperSkyline89  posted on Aug 13, 2010 5:20:10 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by nailan

And I also have a problem with you saying love is the basis for the light side. It is not. Love is forbidden in the Jedi code. In fact the begining line of thier creed states there is no emotion... Love would be a trait for the gray followers. ones who walk the line between light and dark. which is likely where anakin should have been. as he didnt exactly have the right stuff to be on either of the other sides.

You're right about love being forbidden, in the relationship sense. But I think Jedi have to love life to protect it from evil.

 
nailan  posted on Aug 13, 2010 5:59:27 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by SuperSkyline89

quote:
originally posted by nailan

And I also have a problem with you saying love is the basis for the light side. It is not. Love is forbidden in the Jedi code. In fact the begining line of thier creed states there is no emotion... Love would be a trait for the gray followers. ones who walk the line between light and dark. which is likely where anakin should have been. as he didnt exactly have the right stuff to be on either of the other sides.

You're right about love being forbidden, in the relationship sense. But I think Jedi have to love life to protect it from evil.

you do not have to love something to protect it.
I once stopped a Man from beating a prostitute. I do not love prostitutes nor had I ever met this woman. yet I protected her.
And I am no Jedi. If I don't need love to protect something why would they? Its more about honor and duty than love.

 
QueenNic  posted on Aug 14, 2010 12:49:34 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by DoctorMozG

@Nic_Durron That's very intresting thought , so Darth Sidious failed on his own game basicly. Also if to look back on ep1 Sidious had an apprentice Darth Maul which failed to kill Obi Wan, therefor Sidious has failed as a Master. And later he meets up a new apprentice Darth Vader which is so much more than his last, that's too probably made him feel too overconfident about himself.

@SuperSkyline89 Well i do know about Sith ways but u might think that he could kinda choose the rules he wants. He is a damn Emperor after all. He makes his own rules.

@nailan Haha, jar jar best villain? More like a best annoying villain to me And he was already called Vader when he went into Jedi temple and as we know it killing all the youngling and probably everybody else who was in temple at that time. Also he did like continue to search jedi and rebel forces around the galaxy for next 20 years and killing them after he found.

I wouldn't say that Sidious failed outright. He succeeded in the destruction the Jedi and becoming Emperor. He retained control of the Galaxy for nearly two decades as well. His flaw was his overconfidence, he trusted too much in his manipulation of Vader and did not see Luke as something that would bring back Anakin (Bearing in mind, Anakin's concern that led him to darkness was Padme, not his unborn children)

Darth Maul failed to kill Obi Wan, yes, but he did kill Obi Wan's master. Obi Wan was fighting more out of grief and rage, giving him the strength to defeat Maul. This was not a failure on the part of Sidious, in fact it could even have been part of his plan. He happily cast aside Dooku in favour of Vader as an apprentice, and this is someone who plotted his own kidnapping and orchestrated wars in order to ensure he gained power.

Overconfidence and misplaced trust were what killed him. Any other Sith would know that a comrade is the least trustworthy person to keep around. (By this point Vader would no longer be an apprentice, remember)

Also, relevent to this thread: Link

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