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 The Decline of the PC game market  
 
 
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 8:58:25 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by Foxxie-kun:

You seem to have a Holier than Thou attitude when it comes to this.

So being a consumer rather than a minor member of a company I've never heard of makes me an idiot in terms of basic economics?

I never even took an economics class, but I know for a fact that just because a hundred DVDs are stolen from stores doesn't mean the movie publishers and makers go out of business. Just because movies are torrented by the truckload doesn't mean that either.

What anyone can see in today's gaming market is that the developers and publishers are getting lazier and greedier, which is a bad combination.

You take the dev's word as gold when they yell "Pirates", but any counter-argument is suddenly made out to be "Lies, slander, and hellfire" in your eyes.

If ever there was a crusader on a pointless mission, it would be you. Pirates will pirate be it movies, PC games, console games, etc.

And what you don't realize is that illegal copies of 360 games are just as commonplace with the 360's circle of "Kids" as illegal PC copies are with our circle of "Kids".

Certainly console pirates are just as plentiful, how else could Halo 3 and Gears of War 2 have been so heavily "Warez'ed" up to a week before release?

I for one, buy anything I can afford. Past that, I don't buy or pirate until such a time where I can afford to buy the game either retail or Steam.

But I digress. I just don't take the developer's word for it when many devs are releasing PC titles with nary a second thought and making tons of money for them. I'm sure the pre-orders for Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 more than covered the entire development/port costs.

My half-sister still owes me $30 though, so that may be my ticket to getting AVP3 for my birthday.

Jesus please dont use your brain yes? You may end up in a padded cell.

Let me make it clear to you. Not holier than thou, just I have had experience on both ends. You on the other hand are digging up crap left right and centre, I like debating with Dhampy cause he does check things yes, and its good we have different views on things.

As for you, I think you just dont grasp English or something. You do NOT read fully what is being said, your skimming words and only reading what is interesting to you.

Then you try to tell me how game development works.. No need done that been there, professionally.

Then you try to tell me in another thread what a crack is, been there done that... mostly under another name, but one crack under my name exists.. and is still listed on Nfohump I do believe, from way back with Starfury.

I have been on both sides of the fence, I have seen what warez is capable of when it gets out of hand, and its getting out of hand.

Now tell me, compared to my experiences and knowledge.. what about you? no? yes? Put you to the test?

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Posted: Jan 23, 2010 1:44:27 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

I know that I've stolen my far share of games.
But I've bought a lot of games that I'd first stolen. For example, I bought The Orange Box, I even bought The Sims 3 when it was released. It was also a stolen copy of GTA IV that made me fall in love with the game before I went out and bought it.
MW2 was I game I also had to buy (stupid hype) and I plan on buying Mass Effect 2 on Steam when I find some money.
Despite the stereotype of PC Gamers I do go out and buy alot of my games.


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Posted: Jan 23, 2010 3:58:21 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by Foxxie-kun:

So being a consumer rather than a minor member of a company I've never heard of makes me an idiot in terms of basic economics?

Team17 were the developers of the Worms games. I'm surprised you don't know them.

And I'm the only crusader here

[Edited by NobleCrusader, 1/23/2010 3:59:33 AM]

[Edited by NobleCrusader, 1/23/2010 3:59:52 AM]

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Posted: Jan 23, 2010 1:43:52 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by NobleCrusader:

 quote:
 originally posted by Foxxie-kun:

So being a consumer rather than a minor member of a company I've never heard of makes me an idiot in terms of basic economics?

Team17 were the developers of the Worms games. I'm surprised you don't know them.

And I'm the only crusader here

[Edited by NobleCrusader, 1/23/2010 3:59:33 AM]

[Edited by NobleCrusader, 1/23/2010 3:59:52 AM]

Exactly.

But foxxie proceeds to think that they know more, than someone who has experience and knowledge on that side of things.

And not just Worms.

Alien Breed
Project X (best Shooter on the Amiga and at the time I say so myself)
SuperFrog
etc

Recently they did LSL : Box Office Bust. Not an amazing game yeah, but they did it.

Not to mention, they are working on Lemmings on PS2/3. And another Alien Breed.

They have moved from Dundee to Yorkshire a few years back. But perhaps Foxxie, do what you preach about Dhampy and actually do research before you make yourself look really dumb, or more dumb since you kinda failed at looking clever already.

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Posted: Jan 23, 2010 6:14:31 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by DABhand:

And not just Worms.

Alien Breed
Project X (best Shooter on the Amiga and at the time I say so myself)
SuperFrog
etc

I have only heard of Worms, and I will admit that I never played it.
Besides, I could say I worked for Blizzard, but it doesn't mean I did any important stuff. I could be a ****ing janitor.

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Posted: Jan 23, 2010 6:34:35 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

I love how you didn't try to dispute my assertion of the fact that console pirates claim just as much "Lost" revenue as PC pirates/warez users.

And once again, knowledge of how they are made does not constitute having knowledge of the economic implications of their sales and lack thereof. You MIGHT have worked for them, and if so I congratulate you, but you're oblivious to the fact that, while immoral, piracy does not affect actual profits at all. And most people don't pirate because of the prices, they pirate to thwart the overly intrusive and often illegal rootkit-style DRM implemented within them, which has never been left uncracked for any significant length of time anyway.

Also, the biggest majority of warez users on any platform consists of late teens and young adults, oftentimes upset because mommy or daddy doesn't have a bank account in the Cayman Islands full of gold bullion to satisfy their need to buy everything. Or hell, the game isn't being sold in their region at all.

I support letting people acquire a game within their region when it's as of yet banned for sale. The developers/publisher can't make money from their region anyway, so the "Lost Sale" is nullified from the get-go.

And of course Worms is a casual title, as are the rest of those games. I frown on any company continuing with Casual titles unless it's a free browser-based program like Gaia Online or some such that also has social networking aspects.

But I digress. You've neither agreed with nor disputed the major points I made, so I can only assume you've accepted that console piracy is just as big of an issue and that the console industry is thriving regardless of the issue. Why would it not be the same for the PC gaming industry if not for the developers getting too fat too quickly on the console market?

The answer is thusly: The developers are too lazy to optimize and bug-test 3 versions of the same game, and rather extensively test one, semi-test another, and shaft the PC market with no release or a horrific bugfest like The Force Unleashed was.

Consoles are concrete in makeup, there is no replacing the video chip with a new one, adding memory, or overclocking the CPU. It has to work on a baseline level for the console and then it will work on every console of the same make. The PC however, is variable between person to person, and oftentimes no two people have the same setup. They have to bugtest with all the graphical and audio options for a broad range of hardware from the low-end to the bleeding edge. Developers and their QA departments are too lazy to do such things nowadays unless their company name is Bioware anymore.

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Posted: Jan 23, 2010 7:23:45 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

I love how you didn't try to dispute my assertion of the fact that console pirates claim just as much "Lost" revenue as PC pirates/warez users.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to get your console hardware modded so that it can play "backup games" instead of retail games. Sure you drop 50-100 dollars for the operation but after that, you never have to buy games again...just find someone with the game and copy it. Especially in east and mid-east asia, these "copy games" are way easier to find than the actual retail copies. When I was in Korea, I did not meet one person who did not get their consoles modded and South Korea is the most game crazed nation I've seen and their capital city alone is home to 27 million people. Console games lose a large chunk of revenue. The only reason the PC market has a bigger problem is that they have more software than just Video Games (with Microsoft Windows being the product that is probably pirated the most).

And once again, knowledge of how they are made does not constitute having knowledge of the economic implications of their sales and lack thereof. You MIGHT have worked for them, and if so I congratulate you, but you're oblivious to the fact that, while immoral, piracy does not affect actual profits at all. And most people don't pirate because of the prices, they pirate to thwart the overly intrusive and often illegal rootkit-style DRM implemented within them, which has never been left uncracked for any significant length of time anyway.

The attempt at rootkit DRM software was only done by Sony and is no longer attempted. It was done once and certainly isn't "often". Copyright owners, the developers themselves, and resellers have every right to modify their released files to protect against copying files. The main cause to perform pirating is to get out of paying or (for the people that copy software and resell them) to get an almost 100% profit from their sales. Microsoft a few years back busted a pirating ring in China responsible for a loss of 2 billion in revenue that went to the pirate lords instead of Microsoft (who made the product).

Also, the biggest majority of warez users on any platform consists of late teens and young adults, oftentimes upset because mommy or daddy doesn't have a bank account in the Cayman Islands full of gold bullion to satisfy their need to buy everything. Or hell, the game isn't being sold in their region at all.

Almost impossible to tell though no matter the age and what not, if people want to get out of paying, all they need to do is look around for the free version.

I support letting people acquire a game within their region when it's as of yet banned for sale. The developers/publisher can't make money from their region anyway, so the "Lost Sale" is nullified from the get-go.

Likewise a person caught selling pirated copies in a banned nation will get charged for more than selling pirated copies.

And of course Worms is a casual title, as are the rest of those games. I frown on any company continuing with Casual titles unless it's a free browser-based program like Gaia Online or some such that also has social networking aspects.

What a person decides to make it paid software or make freeware is not your call. If you don't like it then make your own software and market it as either free software or freeware. Most "casual games" still required a lot of work to develop and to maintain after releasing it. If it makes you that mad then you should look at Nexon's marketing style and try to apply it to other games. You'll find it to be hard.

But I digress. You've neither agreed with nor disputed the major points I made, so I can only assume you've accepted that console piracy is just as big of an issue and that the console industry is thriving regardless of the issue. Why would it not be the same for the PC gaming industry if not for the developers getting too fat too quickly on the console market?

Wrong. Console systems usually require a hardware modification to bypass checks where as PC developers cannot ask users "oh yeah to play our games, you need this chip on your hardware so we know you're playing our games." PC developers only have software protection to protect their works which simply does not measure up to the hardware level protection that console systems have. The ONLY software developer that has managed to protect their software as much as a console system is Apple Inc. and their Mac OS X Operating System (in which their EULA states it's illegal to install it on anything outside their own hardware) and they can lock their software by hardware checks.

The answer is thusly: The developers are too lazy to optimize and bug-test 3 versions of the same game, and rather extensively test one, semi-test another, and shaft the PC market with no release or a horrific bugfest like The Force Unleashed was.

Too lazy? Maybe some but some companies do not have the funds to perform the ports to other console systems. Politics also play a role into what games go to what systems. If company A does not like the way a console company does it's licensing to sell games on it's system, there it goes out the door. And yes, you have to pay royalties to console systems to sell on their platforms (ever wondered why almost every Nintendo product has that "Officially licensed by Nintendo"? It's because they have to pay Nintendo to be licensed to develop and release games on their products).

Consoles are concrete in makeup, there is no replacing the video chip with a new one, adding memory, or overclocking the CPU. It has to work on a baseline level for the console and then it will work on every console of the same make. The PC however, is variable between person to person, and oftentimes no two people have the same setup. They have to bugtest with all the graphical and audio options for a broad range of hardware from the low-end to the bleeding edge. Developers and their QA departments are too lazy to do such things nowadays unless their company name is Bioware anymore

In a sense, Game Consoles are simply just specific PC models with their specifications. Though if you pay attention carefully sometimes companies push out "new generations" of the same console with different things under the hood. Since it's specifically tested to run the same things, it doesn't matter too much unless you like looking up nerd stats like that or creating custom firmware or other software modding / homebrewing. When you introduce different hardware in different console lines, you have to do some massive changes to shift the game play to the other sets of API and developer kits and that's a lot more work than you think it is.


[Note: Totally abusing mod powers to make a post longer than 6000 letters]

[Edited by moderator Neo7, 1/23/2010 7:41:32 PM]

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Posted: Jan 23, 2010 10:12:55 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

i think there's one console that cannot be modded..that's the PS3. and Foxxie is right...consoles too have lost plenty of revenue due to piracy and not just the PC. but i don't see the PC gaming market come crashing down anytime soon.

[Edited by saurabhfzd, 1/23/2010 10:14:53 PM]

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