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The Decline of the PC game market
 
Dhampy  posted on Jan 21, 2010 1:28:27 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by DAB

How many companies went bankrupt or were bought by rivals...blah blah false attribution

Contrary to your own strange views on economics...

1. Dozens very successful companies file for bankruptcy protection every year. It's not a negative. It doesn't mean the company goes out of business. It's not the same as individual bankruptcy. You cannot file for bankruptcy protection if you aren't profitable. Keep in mind: both Apple and Microsoft QUALIFY for bankruptcy protection. Are they failing companies?

2. As any economist will tell you, a climate where larger companies are willing to take on questionable smaller companies--their debt and liabilities--is an incredibly good climate. Even at the top economic times in the US, most major companies in a given industry wouldn't touch their smaller competitors. That shows how strong and vibrant the PC software market is.

3. "Poor sales" put publishers out of business. And no major publishers went out of business in 2009. Software companies don't make big money from people buying their games. They make the vast majority of their money from deals with publishers before their games are sold.

[Edited by Dhampy, 1/21/2010 1:29:17 PM]

 
Foxxie-kun  posted on Jan 21, 2010 1:45:55 PM - Report post

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DAB, you sound VERY embittered by this entire argument.

Dhampy's points are spot on, while yours seem fairly tainted by bitterness and lack of research.

It doesn't matter if you've done what you say you've done, making an entire game from the ground up is different from what you've done by a long shot. Let's see you work with an entire developer's suite to assemble your small part of a gigantic group effort.

What you've said you've done pales in comparison to the actual work and collaboration required to make even a semi-working product.

And another thing, publishers and developers buy each other out for many reasons.

Remember the Activision acquisition/purchase of Blizzard? Why would Blizzard allow itself to be bought when WoW is literally still printing money by the truck full? And why would Activision pay through the nose to get a company that would cost so much to acquire? Because they get to share in a now mutual profit from each other's intellectual properties. For example, Activision now has a big cash influx from WoW, and Blizzard, who was acquired, gets paid exponentially for any new titles they make under Activision, not to mention their regular salary.

Saying a company went under because it was purchased by a bigger company is the epitome of ignorance of the way the market works.

PC gaming is being kept alive by the enthusiasts who continue to purchase the hardware to run the latest and greatest. So long as the Nvidia and ATI war is being waged, there will always be games made to push the limit and continue the war. ATI and Nvidia have a LOT to lose should the PC become a non-issue in gaming. They can't subsist on selling millions of the same exact low-cost part to Sony and Microsoft, their bread and butter is their exclusive PC video cards which at the highest can cost over a grand each. They're bound to give some incentives to companies to make and publish PC-centric titles and above-average Console-to-PC ports.

 
DABhand  posted on Jan 21, 2010 1:54:08 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Foxxie-kun

DAB, you sound VERY embittered by this entire argument.

Dhampy's points are spot on, while yours seem fairly tainted by bitterness and lack of research.

It doesn't matter if you've done what you say you've done, making an entire game from the ground up is different from what you've done by a long shot. Let's see you work with an entire developer's suite to assemble your small part of a gigantic group effort.

What you've said you've done pales in comparison to the actual work and collaboration required to make even a semi-working product.

And another thing, publishers and developers buy each other out for many reasons.

Remember the Activision acquisition/purchase of Blizzard? Why would Blizzard allow itself to be bought when WoW is literally still printing money by the truck full? And why would Activision pay through the nose to get a company that would cost so much to acquire? Because they get to share in a now mutual profit from each other's intellectual properties. For example, Activision now has a big cash influx from WoW, and Blizzard, who was acquired, gets paid exponentially for any new titles they make under Activision, not to mention their regular salary.

Saying a company went under because it was purchased by a bigger company is the epitome of ignorance of the way the market works.

PC gaming is being kept alive by the enthusiasts who continue to purchase the hardware to run the latest and greatest. So long as the Nvidia and ATI war is being waged, there will always be games made to push the limit and continue the war. ATI and Nvidia have a LOT to lose should the PC become a non-issue in gaming. They can't subsist on selling millions of the same exact low-cost part to Sony and Microsoft, their bread and butter is their exclusive PC video cards which at the highest can cost over a grand each. They're bound to give some incentives to companies to make and publish PC-centric titles and above-average Console-to-PC ports.

I once worked for Team 17. True Story. In Dundee.

I fully understand game development and whats involved, do you? So its different from what ive done? Hmmmm...

Like I said DirectX API programming is a must these days, and I knows it.

Not embittered as such, just disappointed in kids these days who dont value anything. If they want quality games to be pumped out continuously they have to help by purchasing.

Ever wonder why Square stopped allowing Final Fantasy's to be released on the PC? Im sure ive mentioned this before. And where did MGS3 and 4 go? And GTA4 nearly never made it to the PC.

Why? Because developers are becoming more wary of releasing onto PC when a huge percentage of a potential market is actually stealing games rather than buying them.

In a few years time its the same kids who will be forced onto consoles, and then they will complain about the lack of PC coverage. And its themselves to blame.

 
Neo7  posted on Jan 21, 2010 2:08:37 PM - Report post

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The only company I've seen take care of their released software well is Blizzard Entertainment. As for sales and whatnot, it's depended on consumer reaction. You can put all the work you want into a game and have it flop like a fish out of the water in the market. You can see it well if you expand your view of a game to other parts of the world and watch it succeed in one area of the world and completely fail in another part.

Different consoles and systems require ports which require time and more effort. When a 3rd party does it, it's really a gamble buying it once the port is done. A good example of it being Dead Space which I heard was really good on the console systems but when it was ported to the PC by a 3rd party, the controls suffered significantly (still playable but not as enjoyable on the PS3).

Look at Blizzard and the development of StarCraft II: They are committing to making it compatible both on PC and on a Mac. Since it's being programmed by the same company, I have high expectations of it being a good port (where as the original StarCraft flops around when some maps are played on a Mac and make the application crash. Found this out the hard way trying to play on Python against a person).

PC development has different developer kits than the PS3 or 360 and when functions and programming languages clash hard, it may be a compromise to how well you can port a game over from one system to another. Can it be done? Sure...anything is possible if you're willing to put in a lot of hard work. In practice where you want to stick with one developer kit, usually compromise is impossible to avoid.


Oh yeah...and so DABhand can nit-pick at my experience:
-One course on background of game developing (theory side)
-One course of practical experience on Torque Game Engine (lol primitive)

[Edited by Neo7, 1/21/2010 2:09:39 PM]

 
DABhand  posted on Jan 21, 2010 3:10:11 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Neo7

The only company I've seen take care of their released software well is Blizzard Entertainment. As for sales and whatnot, it's depended on consumer reaction. You can put all the work you want into a game and have it flop like a fish out of the water in the market. You can see it well if you expand your view of a game to other parts of the world and watch it succeed in one area of the world and completely fail in another part.

Different consoles and systems require ports which require time and more effort. When a 3rd party does it, it's really a gamble buying it once the port is done. A good example of it being Dead Space which I heard was really good on the console systems but when it was ported to the PC by a 3rd party, the controls suffered significantly (still playable but not as enjoyable on the PS3).

Look at Blizzard and the development of StarCraft II: They are committing to making it compatible both on PC and on a Mac. Since it's being programmed by the same company, I have high expectations of it being a good port (where as the original StarCraft flops around when some maps are played on a Mac and make the application crash. Found this out the hard way trying to play on Python against a person).

PC development has different developer kits than the PS3 or 360 and when functions and programming languages clash hard, it may be a compromise to how well you can port a game over from one system to another. Can it be done? Sure...anything is possible if you're willing to put in a lot of hard work. In practice where you want to stick with one developer kit, usually compromise is impossible to avoid.


Oh yeah...and so DABhand can nit-pick at my experience:
-One course on background of game developing (theory side)
-One course of practical experience on Torque Game Engine (lol primitive)

[Edited by Neo7, 1/21/2010 2:09:39 PM]

I wasnt nitpicking at anyones experience foxxie was.

Agreed PS3 and X360's development tools are indeed different, but they are still compiled on PC's. :P

 
Foxxie-kun  posted on Jan 21, 2010 3:27:15 PM - Report post

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You seem to have a Holier than Thou attitude when it comes to this.

So being a consumer rather than a minor member of a company I've never heard of makes me an idiot in terms of basic economics?

I never even took an economics class, but I know for a fact that just because a hundred DVDs are stolen from stores doesn't mean the movie publishers and makers go out of business. Just because movies are torrented by the truckload doesn't mean that either.

What anyone can see in today's gaming market is that the developers and publishers are getting lazier and greedier, which is a bad combination.

You take the dev's word as gold when they yell "Pirates", but any counter-argument is suddenly made out to be "Lies, slander, and hellfire" in your eyes.

If ever there was a crusader on a pointless mission, it would be you. Pirates will pirate be it movies, PC games, console games, etc.

And what you don't realize is that illegal copies of 360 games are just as commonplace with the 360's circle of "Kids" as illegal PC copies are with our circle of "Kids".

Certainly console pirates are just as plentiful, how else could Halo 3 and Gears of War 2 have been so heavily "Warez'ed" up to a week before release?

I for one, buy anything I can afford. Past that, I don't buy or pirate until such a time where I can afford to buy the game either retail or Steam.

But I digress. I just don't take the developer's word for it when many devs are releasing PC titles with nary a second thought and making tons of money for them. I'm sure the pre-orders for Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 more than covered the entire development/port costs.

My half-sister still owes me $30 though, so that may be my ticket to getting AVP3 for my birthday.

 
saurabhfzd  posted on Jan 22, 2010 2:08:49 AM - Report post

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*phew* that was intense..and yet..informative.
 
Shibby  posted on Jan 22, 2010 2:34:02 AM - Report post

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I wont pretend to understand anything about the gaming market, but it will be a cold day in hell before I pay $120-$140 for a new game release this year when the chances are it will be incomplete or full of bugs or both.

I don't mind paying for games - But I mind getting ripped off.

Not to say I will get pirated copies, that's not for me, but with the exception of 3 new games, the only other game purchases I plan to make this year will be of the titles I've wanted since 07-08 which are now more reasonably priced.

Thank goodness I'm not a hard core gamer or I'd be broke and friendless in no time, I don't know how other people manage it.

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