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 Are we to blame?  
 
 
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Posted: Nov 15, 2012 4:31:33 PM - Report post  (2)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

Well after a lengthy absence due to studying and such, I'd thought I'd stretch my legs and make my way back over to these parts. From just a quick glance at the threads in GD I notice a certain lack of decent threads about. So, I thought I'd have a go myself. This is a discussion I've had another forum and it got quite a decent discussion going, so here's hoping it will do the same here.

So. Back to what ever it was I going to say. Ah yes. There seems to be this idea that we, as a species are systemically killing this planet, draining it of its resources and recklessly killing everything in sight. Well I'm not going to contend that. But...

Apparently we are solely to blame. We inherit this guilt at birth and we are born into a society where the media, and our peers tells us aspire to a living style that has adverse consequences for this planet. Yet we are laden with guilt by the same media who tell us to aspire to pretensions of grandeur, to accumulate as much material gain as possible, to have a huge bank account and eat and eat and eat and eat...anyway, it's pretty much hypocrisy at its finest. Yes I know I'm generalizing but this isn't really "specifically" related to what I'm about to ask so do forgive me.

The question is, are we as a species, or even as an individual in anyway responsible for the supposed dire state of our planet. Well here's my opinion.
No. We are not in anyway responsible. This planet is responsible. No I'm serious and here's why. Evolution shows us that life is ultimately an expression of it's environment and animals have to adapt
to survive sudden changes in the environment. All creatures will have survival mechanisms written in their DNA, gained from millions of years of competing for food and coping with this changing environment. The most obvious ones worth noting would include the drive to seek food, self preservation and the need to mate in order to sustain the species.

Now if we look at our own species and all the ills of our society, they could
all rather easily be attributed to these aforementioned survival mechanisms. Obviously now that we are changing our environment these survival mechanisms have now have have perhaps become counter constructive. Our power on the planet means profound consequences for many other species. But does it have to be this way? If life could be sustained on a planet that allowed for species to peacefully co exist. If the conditions on this planet allowed for a state of perpetual equilibrium, perhaps then we would of inherited the qualities to we desire in order to reach this ever fading dream of utopia in which we all live in harmony with each other and the planet. Well the bad news is this obviously could never happen. A varied climate and competition amongst species as well as multiple extinction events create a varied enough gene pool for more complex life such as ourselves to exist.

So this leads me back to my first point. The planet is to blame. Our genetics
are to blame. The specific set of circumstances which allow life to thrive are to blame . I do have several more points to make but I'm not gonna throw all my eggs into one basket, I'd like to see what you guys make of what I've said first and I'll continue another day.

[Edited by moderator Elite, 11/15/2012 4:32:18 PM]

[Edited by moderator Elite, 11/15/2012 4:33:06 PM]

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Posted by Neo 19/1/10

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Posted: Nov 15, 2012 4:49:39 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

I agree with you,in all the different ages there has been extinctions and drastic climate change aided by the apex predators eating themselves out of existence or moving to new eco-systems and upsetting the balance it is just the fact that man is self-aware of this and so we place guilt on ourselves about it,when as you said we have no real control over it only perhaps being able to slow the inevitable and eventually make way for the next age
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Posted: Nov 15, 2012 5:02:53 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

While your points are in fact true, they are also wrong. The world and a society are made up of people. Society and genetics maybe blamed but it is our choices that determines our lives. It does not excuse us, it does not take away our responsibility

Quote: If you want to change the world, start with yourself
- Mahatma Gandhi

[Edited by ElectricStar, 11/15/2012 5:06:41 PM]

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Posted: Nov 15, 2012 7:26:33 PM - Report post  (1)  (1)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by ElectricStar:

While your points are in fact true, they are also wrong. The world and a society are made up of people. Society and genetics maybe blamed but it is our choices that determines our lives. It does not excuse us, it does not take away our responsibility

Quote: If you want to change the world, start with yourself
- Mahatma Gandhi

[Edited by ElectricStar, 11/15/2012 5:06:41 PM]

The human mind and conscious is a completely external construct. Everything that makes you, you, is acquired though your environment. Your genetics are determined through millions of years of environmental moulding and your personalty is determined and conditioned by the culture and society you are born into. Free will is an illusion. We are merely a complex organic machines.

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Posted by Neo 19/1/10

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Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:45:56 PM - Report post  (1)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

'Earth has it's boundaries,
But Human Stupidity
Is Limitless.'
- Gustave Flaubert

...nuff said.

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Posted: Nov 15, 2012 11:38:47 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

The purpose of this thread is to engage in a meaningful discussion. It is not called the lets quote other people thread. If you are going to quote someone, at least do it in away that supports a point you have to make.
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Posted by Neo 19/1/10

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Posted: Nov 16, 2012 12:45:50 AM - Report post  (1)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by Elite:

The purpose of this thread is to engage in a meaningful discussion. It is not called the lets quote other people thread. If you are going to quote someone, at least do it in away that supports a point you have to make.

i'm well aware of the purpose of this thread. and the quote...is apt. there is no end to human stupidity. call it genetics, call it circumstance, call it whatever u want. its our conscious choices, its our collective greed that is responsible for the mess we're in. we are responsible.

the billions of barrels of oil we're suckin' up, all the coal and iron ore etc. we're digging up, all of it is being done because of our conscious choices and decisions. yes, we are responsible.

that better?

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Posted: Nov 16, 2012 1:21:30 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

The planet suffers because we dig up ore and oil? Isn't oil just organic matter anyway? That stuff never used to be there, perhaps the planet is thankful that we are removing it?..
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Posted by Neo 19/1/10

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