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Shepard indoctrinated?
 
benduhova  posted on Mar 13, 2012 7:04:03 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Lizml86

quote:
originally posted by benduhova

his indoctrination could have started in me1 like it has been mentioned and it kind of makes sense when in me3 you hear your dead crew members in your dreams and in me2 when you are aboard the dead reaper in the logs scientists are talking about hearing voices and sharing memorys, as one of them put it "even dead gods dream"

Doubtful too much time has passed b/w me1 and me3. Plus Shepard died in me2, so any indoctrination would have ended. (Connection breaks when brain dies. When Saran died, the connection to Nazara(Sovereign) breaks, dropping its shields, allowing the fleets to destroy it.)

Also the way is progressed, it seems as if indoctrination is dependent on the particular ship that affects them. IE Collectors being controlled by Harbinger, if Harbinger dies, they stop being controlled.

Also "Slow indoctrination" is the only way to guarantee longevity of the subject. A reaper must be present often for it to maintain control. Otherwise control fades. Shepard was only aboard for a few hours AT MOST.

However on Arrival he was hit by the artifact, and knocked out for 2+ days, sufficient time for some effects.


well put i hadnt thought about it like that

 
goldsaiyan  posted on Mar 13, 2012 10:08:12 PM - Report post

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i chose to destroyt he reaps i think that's the best ending because sheps alive and his crew survives in the end!
 
Skyheart  posted on Mar 14, 2012 2:45:39 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by benduhova

quote:
originally posted by Lizml86

quote:
originally posted by benduhova

his indoctrination could have started in me1 like it has been mentioned and it kind of makes sense when in me3 you hear your dead crew members in your dreams and in me2 when you are aboard the dead reaper in the logs scientists are talking about hearing voices and sharing memorys, as one of them put it "even dead gods dream"

Doubtful too much time has passed b/w me1 and me3. Plus Shepard died in me2, so any indoctrination would have ended. (Connection breaks when brain dies. When Saran died, the connection to Nazara(Sovereign) breaks, dropping its shields, allowing the fleets to destroy it.)

Also the way is progressed, it seems as if indoctrination is dependent on the particular ship that affects them. IE Collectors being controlled by Harbinger, if Harbinger dies, they stop being controlled.

Also "Slow indoctrination" is the only way to guarantee longevity of the subject. A reaper must be present often for it to maintain control. Otherwise control fades. Shepard was only aboard for a few hours AT MOST.

However on Arrival he was hit by the artifact, and knocked out for 2+ days, sufficient time for some effects.


well put i hadnt thought about it like that

That's how I thought. Although... just to stick with my annoying habit of shooting my own theories down, or those I agree with...

Who knows what TIM stuck inside Shep when they rebuilt him? Yes, he didn't want anything in his brain to control him or whatever, because Shep had to be himself, but there was nothing stopping him from having Reaper tech implanted somewhere in his body without Miranda's knowledge, and where no one would detect it.

Still, I don't think it's indoctrination. I just like to try and see things from both sides.

 
Drakonis  posted on Mar 14, 2012 3:20:36 AM - Report post

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Reaper tech is aboard the Normandy, the IFF. Vega mentions a humming

From someone else

1) The Theory isn't "Shepard has always been indoctrinated since the beginning of ME3". Its "Harbinger is attempting to indoctrinate Shepard AFTER Shepard is hit by the beam".
2) The moment Shepard wakes up, Coats reports that nobody made it to the Conduit, yet Shepard is walking towards it.
3) Depending on your EMS, you'll either see your squadmates dead (low) or not there (high).
4) Despite that area being completely destroyed, there are three trees in the area.
5) You have unlimited ammo through the game, even when you're at the Citadel and there's nothing to shoot at.
6) Shepard's Gun = Shepard's Willpower
7) Once you're inside the Citadel, Anderson says he followed you in. Yet, he gets to the console first and if he did indeed follow you in, why did he not report to Coats that Shepard and him are heading inside?
8) All the dead bodies have the same face and are bald.
9) Anderson notes that the walls are moving. Recall back to the Derelict Reaper in ME2. If you listened to the logs, the scientists noted that they had shared memories, the walls moved, things appeared, etc. It can also be noted that Anderson says "it's dark like the Collector base".
10) Parts of the citadel look like parts from the Shadow Broker base.
11) You may have noticed "1M1" on a part of the Citadel. To your left, it's "1M1". To your right, it's reversed/mirrored. "1M1" is also a part of optics.
12) Illusive Man appears out of nowhere.
13) There are "oily, black" lines around the screen whenever the indoctrinated Illusive Man speaks or does something significant.
14) Despite the Citadel being closed, you can see cars driving in the back ground.
15) If you choose the Paragon route, Illusive Man will commit suicide a la Saren style.
16) Hackett talks to the Commander while on the Citadel... but it was reported that no one made it. So how did Hackett know Shepard was in the Citadel?
17) When lifted up, the Starchild is a "ghostly presence".
18) Depending on your EMS, the Starchild will either say an angry "Why are you here?" (low) or a calm, yet commanding "Wake Up" (high).
19) The Starchild's voice is a mixture of MaleShep, FemShep, and the child's VA. Some claim you can also hear Harbinger.
20) The Starchild puts emphasis on how bad that Destroy ending will be by noting that you would kill synthetic life, including the Geth. He also mentions that Shepard is partially synthetic, implying you will die as well.
21) The Starchild will hesitate his answer when Shepard asks "And the Reapers will obey me?". He pauses for 2 seconds and then says "Yes".
22) The Starchild will say that Synthesis is the final stage of evolutionary life. This is what the Reapers always wanted.
23) By choosing Control or Synthesis, Shepard will die regardlessly. This means Shepard lost and he is fully indoctrinated.
24) Control's color is blue (Paragon) while Destroy's color is red (Renegade). Harbinger is tricking not Shepard, but the PLAYER that Control is the good ending.
25) Destroy ending is the only ending where Shepard is alive/wakes up.
26) The Normandy scene is a way for Shepard to imagine that the people closest to him are okay and that they landed on a sunny, lush planet, filled with necessary things to sustain life. Many crewmembers through out ME2 and ME3 have said they would have wanted to go somewhere "sunny" or to a "beach" (yes, there's a beach on that planet).
27) Shepard wakes up back on London because the Citadel wasn't made out of concrete. You can also hear the wind in the background. There is no wind in space or the Citadel.
28) James Vega at one point mentions "Do you hear that humming noise? Or is that just me?". EDI will also says that the Normandy still have the Reaper IFF.
29) The Dreams will get more and more details as the story progresses. At first, it's just the child you're following. The second one has whispers and "oily, black, ghostly" figures. The third one has more ghostly, black figures and more whispers. In my playthrough, I heard Liara's and Kaidan's whispers, saying "Shepard". The final one ends with Shepard hugging/embracing the kid, smiling as they both get burned.
30) Shepard has been more exposed to Reapers and Reaper tech than anyone else on the squad.
31) Notice how no one notices the child throughout the game. No one helps him get on the shuttle and Anderson doesn't ask Shepard what Shepard was doing.
32) A scared child wouldn't say "You can't help me". They would say "Help!", "Save me!", and/or "I'm scared!".
33) When Shepard turns away from the child in the beginning, you can hear a growl. In the ME Novels, Paul Grayson would hear growls when he snapped out of it. The growl is a different sound than what Reapers normally make.
34) The kid disappears in the duct, with no noise or anything.
35) In the ME artbook, the child is "the face of humanity of one that Shepard couldn't save". In a way, the Reapers (or Harbinger) is using the child to taunt Shepard, saying he cannot save them. In ME2, both throughout the main campaign and Arrival DLC, Harbinger said it is inevitable that Shepard will lose.
36) Notice how Harbinger barely speaks in ME3, yet he was a huge role in ME2. You only see Harbinger for a good minute, but he flies away when you wake up. The Child is actually Harbinger, playing on Shepard's emotion to show how weak Shepard is and that he will fail.
37) The reason why Harbinger didn't kill Shepard or force him to choose Control or Synthesis is because Shepard is still resisting. Harbinger then tries another tactic: Persuasion.
38) Indoctrinate has been a huge role throughout the ME universe. However, it is more prominent in ME3.
39) If you choose Control or Synthesis, look at Shepard's eyes. They will turn exactly like Illusive Man's and Saren's. Thus, Shepard has been indoctrinated.

 
Skyheart  posted on Mar 14, 2012 3:37:45 AM - Report post

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Ergh, I'm sorry Drakonis, but that list is stinkier than week old socks. I know you didn't write it, but still.

The very few points which are actually valid, such as the black lines around the screen with TIM around are right, but for wishful thinking level wrong reasons.

 
Drakonis  posted on Mar 14, 2012 4:15:11 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Skyheart

Ergh, I'm sorry Drakonis, but that list is stinkier than week old socks. I know you didn't write it, but still.

The very few points which are actually valid, such as the black lines around the screen with TIM around are right, but for wishful thinking level wrong reasons.

No more stinkier than parts of the ending

People are just hoping there is more to it since Bioware is known for great stories and the ending in ME3 just seems rushed and incomplete and some parts don't make sense. The developers previously said there would be no A,B,C ending but this is an A,B,C ending or rather a red, blue, green ending.

I still love the game though, going through my second play through now. I just feel they messed up the ending, if this is indeed the ending.

 
ServiusTheBear  posted on Mar 14, 2012 4:31:09 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Drakonis

quote:
originally posted by Skyheart

Ergh, I'm sorry Drakonis, but that list is stinkier than week old socks. I know you didn't write it, but still.

The very few points which are actually valid, such as the black lines around the screen with TIM around are right, but for wishful thinking level wrong reasons.

No more stinkier than parts of the ending

People are just hoping there is more to it since Bioware is known for great stories and the ending in ME3 just seems rushed and incomplete and some parts don't make sense. The developers previously said there would be no A,B,C ending but this is an A,B,C ending or rather a red, blue, green ending.

I still love the game though, going through my second play through now. I just feel they messed up the ending, if this is indeed the ending.

Its EA that told them to do it like that. They want it out the way.

 
Skyheart  posted on Mar 14, 2012 4:35:43 AM - Report post

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No... they didn't. Please tell me you don't seriously believe that?

EA have absolutely no creative control over how BioWare does things like that. Besides, what would be the difference between writing a short ending like the ones we have, and a slightly longer ending which takes everything into account? It'd still be released at the same time, and the trilogy would still be over.

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