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I just LOVE pirates NOT!
 
Paradox  posted on Sep 07, 2009 6:45:45 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Punisher0836

Everyone tends to forget that piracy been around longer than most of us, no matter how many time you stop one person or a whole group of pirates. 3 more come out and so on. Piracy has been around longer than any of us and will continue to do so no matter what; it’s a losing battle no matter way u look at it. Piracy is here to stay and will continue to thrive with us or without us.

[Edited by Punisher0836, 9/7/2009 6:41:51 PM]

Yes, all forms of "Why do any work/spend money when I can get it for free" will continue to thrive. It's called being a parasite.

 
HardRom  posted on Sep 07, 2009 7:49:10 PM - Report post

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No matter your stance, its hard to validate a comment like "it's theft", when theft means taking someones property. The statement is wrong not only because you arent stealing, you're taking a Copy. The other part is what my wife mentioned; Its Not Real. There's no physical substance to it, its software. That cd in your hand is generic plastic with invisible thoughts written to it. If anything, you're stealing a person's (or group of people) thought. It's not windows, gta, fallout or what-have-you, its a cd. No matter what is on it.

A disc is only valuable to the person(s) who know whats on it.

That's how people get around laws with burnt copies. They dont label them in any common schema, and they charge a set price for a cd / dvd with "unknown content".

You and I both know that they know whats on the disc, but its then up to us (or law enforcement) to prove that They Knew. Thats how they become a pirate.

Piracy is bad, hacking is bad, warez is bad. Not that Im actually daring to take a stance in this obviously sensitive debate, but I would suggest some people do like myself and others on this forum have said they do: Test it. If it's good, buy it.

Your choice, but I do like seeing quality coming out instead of numerous clones of the same game each with more problems by different companies.

Thanks for your time.

 
DABhand  posted on Sep 08, 2009 2:30:43 AM - Report post

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The funny thing is you can spot the warez users a mile off in this thread..

The simple fact is people ARE stealing, you did not pay for the right to use the software therefor you are stealing.

But warez users think they are not, how dare we accuse them of stealing when they are stealing.. And they will always deny they are stealing..

Its like the parents whose kid is a monster, in their eyes their kid is an angel. Same thing for warez users.

Get over it warez users you are petty thieves and there is nothing you can say or do that will change that fact.

 
Lithric  posted on Sep 08, 2009 4:55:28 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by DABhand

The funny thing is you can spot the warez users a mile off in this thread..

The simple fact is people ARE stealing, you did not pay for the right to use the software therefor you are stealing.

But warez users think they are not, how dare we accuse them of stealing when they are stealing.. And they will always deny they are stealing..

Its like the parents whose kid is a monster, in their eyes their kid is an angel. Same thing for warez users.

Get over it warez users you are petty thieves and there is nothing you can say or do that will change that fact.

Theft; to deprive someone of their property or the benefit thereof.
Deprive: take away possessions from someone.

When downloading *ANYTHING* in the piracy sense, at no point is anything destroyed or removed.

The accusation of "theft" is both technically, and factually incorrect.
You *can* make the argument of vandalism simply because there is ground to argue damage of property, or at least the value of the same.

_By definition_ piracy cannot be theft; the Publisher/IP holder/etc still retains the software, gold masters, etc, and therefore, it ipso facto cannot be theft.

Normative statements aside, we're talking about the meaning of a word.

Theft is a technical, legal term. Unlike the less formal meaning - to take something that isn't yours - the legal meaning is what you are referring to.

So, software pirates... Vandals, sure, horrible people, absolutely, a plague on the face of commerce, undoubtedly... thieves, no.

Personally, the only reason I comment on this is that the misunderstanding of the issue of software issues, vice legal terms is lending tacit support to many initiatives by various IP lobbies which steadily erode consumer rights.

Point is, as Valve and others have recognized and capitalized on, Piracy is an indication of under served customers.
Doesn't justify it, doesn't make it right - or wrong for that matter - it merely describes human behavior.
Any legal attempt to correct that, is likely to be backed by numerous vested interests which will likely cause the eventual outcome to be suboptimal for everyone else.


Hmm. This marks one of the longest posts I've ever made on a forum... for better or worse.

I'll come back and review this after I've had a chance to catch up with my sleep... hopefully nothing too glaringly incomplete or brain dead has made it through review.

DABhand, Nothing personal, I just happen to have a severe disagreement with your position, based solely on the terms involved being misused.

 
Neo7  posted on Sep 08, 2009 6:08:03 AM - Report post

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Once again, Piracy is not theft of software. It is the unauthorized use of it without a license.
 
QueenNic  posted on Sep 08, 2009 8:40:23 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by 8P=a=r=a=d=o=x=D

There is no excuse for being a pirate. Whether you don't have enough money or just don't care, you are still resorting to stealing, which simply cannot be justified. People pay for games because they want to support the developer. If you support the developer, they will continue to make games you like.

Simply put, just don't pirate things. Research the game, ask people about it, and then make your purchase. Support the developer so that next year, you'll have something else to play.

That being said, people SHOULD have been able to get pirate copies of Fable II, because that game is incomplete and the developers have been paid for a job I don't think they finished.

I played pirate games on my PS1 when I was too young to know what went into a game. All my games now are paid for, barring anything I play on an emulator, and I only use emulators for 1) Games that are hard to track down or 2) Games for consoles I no longer own. And I only play Final Fantasy anyway, and Square Enix have plenty of money.

Piracy will always exist, it used to be paintings. Now it's games, DVDs and CDs.

 
Vonfuzzball  posted on Sep 08, 2009 8:52:30 AM - Report post

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I watched a pirate DVD on my Xbox once, im pretty sure that gave me the RROD.

I have no problem with buying games/DVD's at full price, at least then i know what im paying for is going to be the quality i want. Its just like choosing an item in a shop, you'll have the lower priced items that are less reliable and the higher priced ones that you know you can keep for a long time.

 
DABhand  posted on Sep 08, 2009 8:57:10 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Lithric

quote:
originally posted by DABhand

The funny thing is you can spot the warez users a mile off in this thread..

The simple fact is people ARE stealing, you did not pay for the right to use the software therefor you are stealing.

But warez users think they are not, how dare we accuse them of stealing when they are stealing.. And they will always deny they are stealing..

Its like the parents whose kid is a monster, in their eyes their kid is an angel. Same thing for warez users.

Get over it warez users you are petty thieves and there is nothing you can say or do that will change that fact.

Theft; to deprive someone of their property or the benefit thereof.
Deprive: take away possessions from someone.

When downloading *ANYTHING* in the piracy sense, at no point is anything destroyed or removed.

The accusation of "theft" is both technically, and factually incorrect.
You *can* make the argument of vandalism simply because there is ground to argue damage of property, or at least the value of the same.

_By definition_ piracy cannot be theft; the Publisher/IP holder/etc still retains the software, gold masters, etc, and therefore, it ipso facto cannot be theft.

Normative statements aside, we're talking about the meaning of a word.

Theft is a technical, legal term. Unlike the less formal meaning - to take something that isn't yours - the legal meaning is what you are referring to.

So, software pirates... Vandals, sure, horrible people, absolutely, a plague on the face of commerce, undoubtedly... thieves, no.

Personally, the only reason I comment on this is that the misunderstanding of the issue of software issues, vice legal terms is lending tacit support to many initiatives by various IP lobbies which steadily erode consumer rights.

Point is, as Valve and others have recognized and capitalized on, Piracy is an indication of under served customers.
Doesn't justify it, doesn't make it right - or wrong for that matter - it merely describes human behavior.
Any legal attempt to correct that, is likely to be backed by numerous vested interests which will likely cause the eventual outcome to be suboptimal for everyone else.


Hmm. This marks one of the longest posts I've ever made on a forum... for better or worse.

I'll come back and review this after I've had a chance to catch up with my sleep... hopefully nothing too glaringly incomplete or brain dead has made it through review.

DABhand, Nothing personal, I just happen to have a severe disagreement with your position, based solely on the terms involved being misused.

Actually it is theft, and its drummed into people who use warez releases.

People dont buy the software, thats potential money lost on all fronts.. suppliers, developers and publishers.

Its the same as going into a bookshop every day picking up a book and reading it from start to finish without paying for the book, do you think the book shop owner is happy your doing this? Of course not, in essence you are stealing there also.

Its the same with stealing ideas, someone has a bright idea about how to make say for example clean affordable energy, then someone comes along and steals the idea and then announces its his. Its not physical, but it still is theft.

Software is the same, wether people like it or not, when you pay for a game, you have paid for the right to play. The contents of the media does not belong to that purchasee either just as L said the license to play it.

This same excuse has been going on for years now..

It started with the price excuse...
Then I wasnt going to buy it so im not hurting anyone...
Now the its not theft because its not physical, but as ive shown above it doesnt matter.. Theft is Theft.

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