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Religion
 
dstates  posted on Dec 29, 2006 11:27:58 PM - Report post

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"mm, this debate expanded at an amazing rate >.>, and it's all been good... with the exception being that riachi_egg guy >.> further comments will be withheld about him, but im sure most of us (especially dstates) are thinking the same thing..."--correct


"Raven: i have another point to make to you, but it takes a while to explain, so im not going to do it right now, it has to do with how people are raised, dont let me forget, yeah?"

if the point is about how people usually choose their religion based on how they are raised, i agree with you. but i am an example of a contradictary to that because my parents(mother and step-father)are both extream christians


 
DrugMunky  posted on Dec 30, 2006 8:09:44 AM - Report post

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In regards to Darkish's comments about what created emotions, the evolutionary view is that they 'created' themselves. Emotions are electrical pulses and chemical signals in the brain, and those animals who developed them are better able to survive. In regards to my own view on religion, I'm borderline atheist. I don't pretend to know how the universe was created, or if it ever was created (humans have a great reluctance to believe that something could always have just been there). To claim to know how the universe came into being is arrogant at least, idiotic at most. This applies to both the big bang theory and religions, whilst I find the big bang theory more logical it's also just as likely some creator just popped into existence. If undeniable proof that any of the thousands of religions were true was found tomorrow, I'd accept it.

Your argument with regards to emotions appears to be "explain them logically, I just believe my god created them" and as I attempted to explain them logically through a non-creationist theory, perhaps you could explain them logically in regards to Christianity. I'd also like to point out there were many religions around before the now predominant Islam and Christianity, all of which involved some sort of polytheism. Paganism was around thousands of years before Christianity and Islam were formed, so what makes those religions wrong and these right?

You also asked if the fact humans evolved from a form of primate makes monkeys equal to humans.....equal in what way?

[Edited by Moderator DrugMunky, 12/30/2006 8:15:58 AM]

 
Darkish  posted on Dec 30, 2006 10:35:11 AM - Report post

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- What do you mean by, 'borderline Atheist.'

- Is it the years of child abuse that cause one to become a serial killer, or is it the spazmic electrical shocks which cause the depression and anger?

- Emotions are not meant to be 'explained.'

You say that the universe is beyond our logic, right? And you give credit to something within our logic for creating the universe, right? I say that God, who is beyond our logic created something equally beyond our logic. I for one will not be outsmarted by tiny particles of dust.

- While most religions hold some truth, only the Catholic Church holds the absolute truth. 2 + 2 can't be both four AND five.

- To the Protestants- (those who can trace their line back to Martin Luther)

They claim the Bible to be their only authoity, yet they skip the part where Jesus tells His apostles to eat His Body, (Don't tie this into cannabalism, it is not. Nor do not ask of this, it will only lead into another big and -for now- pointless discussion.) which is central to the Catholic Faith.

They also say no one has the right to tamper with the Bible, yet they proceeded to put in a few lines after the Our Father prayer and Martin Luther seemed to have taken out multiple books of the Bible. Doesn't make too much sense to me...

Moslem or Islam and all the other religions (Judism, Hinduism...) is another topic in which I am not too much educated on. But fortunatley, I have gone to talks about it and learned interesting points in which I am unable to fully debate here.

- It is far from a fact that humans evolved from 'Neanderthals.' I was just saying that if both mokey and human evolved from the same being, we would be equals, right?

The last thing I am going to say is that I am equal to a monkey.

[Edited by darkish_raven, 12/30/2006 10:35:54 AM]

 
gtaaddict2  posted on Dec 30, 2006 10:38:12 AM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by dstates

"mm, this debate expanded at an amazing rate >.>, and it's all been good... with the exception being that riachi_egg guy >.> further comments will be withheld about him, but im sure most of us (especially dstates) are thinking the same thing..."--correct


"Raven: i have another point to make to you, but it takes a while to explain, so im not going to do it right now, it has to do with how people are raised, dont let me forget, yeah?"

if the point is about how people usually choose their religion based on how they are raised, i agree with you. but i am an example of a contradictary to that because my parents(mother and step-father)are both extream christians


yeah, that was more or less my point, bt it was more along the lines of...

what if you had been raised in a religion where they dint believe in god? like, say, scientology (belief purely in science, if im not mistaken) then wouldnt you be on here arguing that everything is purely science? or say, been taught buddhism, judaism (sp?) etc, you'd be on here arguing those beliefs, correct?

 
DrugMunky  posted on Dec 30, 2006 11:03:39 AM - Report post

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Borderline atheist as in I am not set in my beliefs. I believe there is no god because I see no evidence for a god rather than I see a more convincing explanation. I said the universe may be beyond our logic, and fussing over how it was created when nobody can provide any evidence (scientific or religious) is pointless. You state only the catholic religion is correct, but have no reason why. Evolutionarily, yes you are equal to a monkey. Humans have adapted bigger brains for greater intelligence, but a chimpanzee is 10x more powerful than a human and only a third of the size.

And finally, scientology is not the belief in science. It's a kooky religion that believes an alien race dropped some other alien race on the planet and killed them and we got possessed by their souls....or something. Ask Tom Cruise.

 
Darkish  posted on Dec 30, 2006 11:32:17 AM - Report post

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So, forget about the miracluous water that cures incurable diseases.

Forget about the miraculous cloth that has an image of twelve people in the pupil. And the image is around 500 years old with no signs of decay. And the image is made of no human material, just an image.

Forget the incorruptibles, who have been dead for hundreds of years yet show no sign of decay.

Forget the documentations of bi-locations from Padre Pio.

Forget the woman who has lived off the Eucharist (supposedly just a piece of bread to the non-beleivers) for forty years and lived.

Forget the stigmatas.

Forget the Shroud of Turin, no sign of decay there.

Forget the fact that the Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years, with no change in their infallible teachings.

Forget the fact that in the past (way back past) that people strove to find something to worship. (Whether it be a golden calf or Pagan gods.)

Forget the fact that billions of people worship God.

Of course there isn't any evidende for God...(sarcastic.)

And once again...I am NOT equal to a monkey, I don't give a rat's ass if they are 20x stronger than humans.

P.S gtaaddict-- That is kind of pointless seeing on how we are talking about God or no God. Not whose religion in right.

[Edited by darkish_raven, 12/30/2006 11:32:57 AM]

 
dstates  posted on Dec 30, 2006 11:37:40 AM - Report post

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"P.S gtaaddict-- That is kind of pointless seeing on how we are talking about God or no God. Not whose religion in right."--i think he was just stating one reason he is athiest

 
DrugMunky  posted on Dec 30, 2006 1:00:04 PM - Report post

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Nothing you listed is evidence Darkish, most are just stories with no verification or proof. And this discussion of whether humans are equal to monkeys (any monkeys) is irrelevant to the topic, especially given you haven't defined the measurement your using for your assessment of not being equal with a monkey.
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