General Discussions

Hey, you twist my words and tell me what I mean by saying them, and I love twisting words, so I couldn't resist this time

Yea, science works with logic, but say you someone fires a nuke at a hill, and the hill blows up. Logical, right? But can you explain exactly why the nuke blew up the hill down to the last detail? Probably not. Just like a miracle, can't be explained
Say we were back 2000 years ago, but using our computers to communicate and debate on this topic, and someone from that era sees what we are doing, and is like 'what the? I cant explain how you guys are doing that, whoa, thats so crazy, must be a miracle!'. But really, theres a logical explanation, but back then they didnt understand like we do, so in two thousand years from now today, science could do things that me and you couldn't even begin to understand, and such we think it's a miracle thats what im getting at.

"So what you are saying that if you accept God's existence, that means you don't beleive in Him? You and I have two different meanings of the word 'Believe.'"

thats not what im saying, there you go with the twisting

I'm saying that you can believe in gods existance, but at the same time you dont have to believe in him being the divine creator and all that. It's a possibility.
For example:
I'll say "I am superman, and I am real"
You can believe I am real, but not believe I'm superman.
By changing the context of 'believe' it can have a different meaning, and I wanted to point that out

As for analogy, just say what you mean, dont replace anything when you dont need to, just makes more work lol.

"thats not what im saying, there you go with the twisting"

I wasn't trying to twist any words, just trying to understand so there is no future confusion and I do now.

Let's keep the debate to one subject at a time from now on, alright?

True, if we went back in time 2000 years with this technology, the people back then would consider this to be, 'a miracle.' But you are forgeting ONE VERY IMPORTANT FACTOR. The computers are MAN-MADE instruments. Go back in time or the future, these are still man-made and therefore, can be proven in no matter what period of time.

The image of Mary is NOT man-made. This image has been surveyed by multiple SECULAR scientists, all of which agree that it is NOT man-made, therefore it is unexplanible no matter how much science is applied.

A nuclear bomb destroys a hill (or any other material, for that matter) due to the incredible amount of energy produced within such a short time.
The main energy source in an atomic bomb is an unstable material, such as Plutonium, or Uranium. the nuclei within these materials, are basically decaying, ready to fall apart.
The smallest amount of energy exherted onto said material, through movement, or friction, causes extra unneeded energy, and in turn, extra neutrons. In an atomic bomb, Dynamite is packed around the radioactive material, which explodes aroun it.
This is when "Nuclear Fission" occurs.
Basically, this is when the hydrogen bonds, holding together each atom are broken, releasing the energy, now not needed to hold the atom together, along with some left over neutrons. The radiation emitted (the left over energy I just described) can damage cells. because so many cells are breaking down at one time within the plutonium, it causes it to warm up, but not enough to be described as an "Explosion", which is where the TNT comes in. Because the Explosive is packed around the radioactive material, when it explodes, it increases the pressure within the bomb, which Compresses the plutonium, making it become denser, this is what is called "critical mass". Now, because the left over neutrons created are so tightly squashed together, it's nigh on impossible for them to escape without bumping into another atom. The energy given to the hit atom, makes it's nuclei, in turn to break down, releasing yet more energy, and yet more neutrons, which in turn, hit other atoms, and the cycle is continued. Because this reaction takes such a small amount of time (not even a second), and each nuclei has released their enerygy almost simultaniously, the energy released at one time is immense, breaking down (in exactly the same way, (with the neutrons hitting decayed nuclei, thus creating more decayed nuclei, and neutrons) this creates a chain reaction which carries for miles. The immense energy from all the atoms releasing energy at one given time, destroys any atom in it's path, and this is why the "hill" in the hypothetical question is completely obliterated.

Everything can be explained, given the right scientific research and time...

[Edited by Evil_MonkeyMan, 10/24/2006 7:51:06 AM]

this is getting exhuasting....

i personally believe in evolution, i dont want to start a big debate like has been going on in this topic already, but for those of us that have read the bible, how is it possible that adam and eve populated this earth without the side effects of incest, but then if you think about it there would have been incest either way, so we would be pretty messed up, and then the hardcore christians how do they explain dinosaurs and all that when the have been dated back millions of years ago and how the universe is billions of years old, when it says in the bible that god created it just over two thousand years ago, that is my major reason for the belief in evolution, i believe there might be a supreme being out there but i cant fully believe it without proof

k, yeh, so, havent read any posts since page seven, so, dont get angry at me if i repeat stuff....but, i heard people sayin about miracles.....that scientists dont even know the answer to these things.........just because some scientist doesnt know why soething's the way it is....it doesnt mean its a miracle.....thats prolly the dmbest thing ive heard....
just sayin...the church has no actual facts...actually, the church doesnt even have anything close to a fact......hell, they dont even have any plausible answers to thier stories.......science and big bang do....and there are loads of diff big bang theories....none of them being two rocks smashin together.....hell, it mightn't have even been a bang...just matter expanding or something......all im sayin is...science has more proof....miracles are not proof....and, yeh, like ES said a few pages back about god helping one or two people who have cancer or something, and, not bothering about starving people and stuff...

sorry bout the double post, but, yeh....how do you know?......see, P_C was saying that if we went back in time with computers talkin to eachother....even the greatest of scientists coudlnt figure it out.....
so, someone very well could have created the image of mary.....just the scientists are so arrogent of thier own intellegence that they say that there is no chance a person made it....

Well I am done debating. I am not going to contribute any further information, instead, I will only coment on future posts because I see no possible way of convincing you regardless of the fact that you cannot give me facts on what you believe and you never talk about the things that you can't explain (note: coincidence link) because you can't explain them and creation through evolution is false.

Well I have to start this off with refering to Evil_monkey_man, nice explanation there, I didn't think anyone would even do that.

Gamerpro- No wonder why you believe in evolution, you have your facts messed up.

"how is it possible that adam and eve populated this earth without the side effects of incest,"

I guess when you think about, it is kind of creepy until there was a lot of people to where they couldn't keep track of blood relatives like we do now. It's just that Adam and Eve lived for around 900 years and had a lot of kids.

"and then the hardcore christians how do they explain dinosaurs and all that when the have been dated back millions of years ago and how the universe is billions of years old"

Well in the Bible it refers to man fighting a beast whose tail was as large as a tree trunk, could that have been a dinosuar living in the time of Adam and Eve and that humans just killed off their existence as we are doing to some species today? No current existing creaute fits that description. I think thousands of years is long enough for fossils to buired to be considered, 'millions and billions of years old.'

"when it says in the bible that god created it just over two thousand years ago"

Jesus was born around 2000 years ago and there was about 6000 years beofore that to get to Adamn and Eve, 8000 years altogether in OUR logical timeline.

Petray-

"k, yeh, so, havent read any posts since page seven, so, dont get angry at me if i repeat stuff"

Well you should, and I'm angry at you.

"just because some scientist doesnt know why soething's the way it is....it doesnt mean its a miracle"

Then what else is it? If scientists cannot logically explain it, what is it then.

"there are loads of diff big bang theories"..."science has more proof"

See now I'm confused on how you link theory with fact and proof, please explain.

"miracles are not proof"

THEN...WHAT...ARE...TH...TH...THHHEEEEEEYYYY??? I asked Shibby the same question a few times, he has still failed to respond.

"science has more proof"

Give me one fact of creation through evolution. I'm listening

"that if we went back in time with computers talkin to eachother....even the greatest of scientists coudlnt figure it out.....
so, someone very well could have created the image of mary."

Oh! So you're saying someone from the future came to the 1500's with this image? Because MANY secular scientists have failed to logically explain what it is other then that of miraculous. So the only other explanation is time travel.

"thats prolly the dmbest thing ive heard." -Petray