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Super Smash Brothers: Melee Discussion

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Some characters are better than others.
 
evilmadman  posted on Aug 10, 2005 7:29:29 PM - Report post


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ya, hes rite
 
killowatts  posted on Aug 10, 2005 9:37:22 PM - Report post

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Actually, he's wrong. He's saying that the character's strength depends on the person controlling that character. Not so. Ganondorf's Warlock Fist will always do the same amount of damage, regardless of who is utilizing the technique. The same applies to Marth. His attacks will do more damage if the tip of his blade connects. The tier system is not based on playing style--it's based on the character's relative strength, when compared to the others.

Here's an example:

Say the best SSBM player in the world clones himself. A match is setup between the two players, who are equal in every respect. They are perfect in every way with every character, and can compute their character's moves and attacks down to the millisecond. These two combatants are literally flawless. Now say that two different characters are selected. Let's say Ganandorf and Capt. Falcon, just for kicks. In a duel, Falcon clearly has the advantage. His speed allows him to outmaneuver Ganondorf. While Ganondorf may be able to devastate his foes with his incredible might, Falcon's speed simply outclasses Ganondorf's power. The inevitable outcome of such a fight is Falcon's victory.

You see, the tier system is not designed to say how some characters are better than others by the ways in which they can be overcome, but by how effective, powerful, and fast their movements, techniques, and attributes are in comparison to the other characters at EXTREMELY high levels of play.

At least that's how I look at it, anyway...

 
bobulation  posted on Aug 11, 2005 4:59:32 PM - Report post

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no. i said that the characters were made unbalanced but weaknesses can be balanched through human creativity. take TAO's wavedashing example. before it was discovered to be a technique (no doubt thanks to some bored person doing random stuff to stop sleep), the ability for a character to effectively wavedash was not taken into consideration for deciding the tier stucture. so because the 14th character could wavedash better than the 12th for example, the 14th would move up and maybe "balance" the 13th (uh-oh, unlucky number). so the tier structure can never be accurate because truly high level SSBM player will constantly try to think of unorthodox strategies to make the character they play as more "balanced".

take your cf vs. gannon example. in a couple of years, some exceptionally bored SSBM player will make some kind of combo so that being slow actually helps it along and does more damge/knocks ppl farther. but that player decides to not tell the world about it; therefore, the tier system cannot be rearranged in favor of slower characters. so when the certain player uses that technique for the first time, he balances the two character of cpt. falcon and gannon since the tier system had not yet beem changed. since the tier system cannot compensate for the literal millions of new "techniques" and unorthodox strategies being created in our living rooms each day, the only way to actually get an "accurate" tier system is to integrate all tier system from past to future together. although the future cannot be predicted, we can make a supposition.

since many players enjoy winning, high-tier characters are played more often and players try to unlock more of thier hidden potential. after a while, the upper limit of that character will be reached, where that character can no longer have new win strategems. so ppl get bored of playing a character and move to play as who they deem "coooler" characters. sonner or later, they are bound to unlock some new hidden potential of that certain character. as every character is thus taken to its "max", which shall be noted as an infinite limit, a compilation of all tier sturctures shall find that each character is indeed "equal".

but of course, characters will never be truly "equal" or "balanced". however, if they cannot be truly "balanced" then the tier system (frozen at a time frame) will not be a truly accurate depiction of whose abilities outwheigh whom's. my point is that the "highest" level of play does not exsist and will not exsist if human creativity is allowed to run is course. therefore the tier structure is of no true use. it just discourages many players from using "cooler" characters or one they like better in favor of "better" ones. however the characters will never be "balanced" yet one will never be truly "better" than the other unless the players are both AI or clones.

 
SpinkByUs  posted on Aug 12, 2005 5:39:43 AM - Report post

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All of these really long posts are making my brain hurt.
 
bobulation  posted on Aug 12, 2005 5:01:21 PM - Report post

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and all the short posts are just hidden forms of spam
 
Evil_MonkeyMan  posted on Aug 14, 2005 7:54:27 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by bobulation

and all the short posts are just hidden forms of spam

Including that one...


and this one

 
SpinkByUs  posted on Aug 15, 2005 5:52:35 AM - Report post

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Ok you can stop now. I think its impossible to tell if all characters are balanced or not because that would take alot of experimenting and adding. And if you've noticed that not every attack from every character is the same every time they use it on someone because that would make the game alot harder. Even if it was possible to tell if every character was balanced I doubt they would be.
 
bobulation  posted on Aug 15, 2005 4:37:38 PM - Report post

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My point is to have everyone realize that the tier system really has no point to it. You should just play as your favorites.
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