Alexander Haig died - Cheat Happens General Discussions Message Board (Page 3)
Cheat Happens Game Cheats and Wallpapers
Cheat Happens Game Cheats and Wallpapers
 
Cheat Happens Game Cheats and Wallpapers
 
     TRAINERS       REQUESTS       GAME REVIEWS       GAME WALLPAPERS       BOARDS
-OR-
 
     
  MESSAGE BOARD LINKS:   SIGNUP    |    BOARDS HOME    |   MY FAVORITE BOARDS    |   NEWEST POSTS    |   MY THREADS  
 
GENERAL DISCUSSIONS MESSAGE BOARD
 
   
SEARCH BOARDS:  
SEARCH THIS BOARD ONLY  
SEARCH HEADERS ONLY  
 
           
   Page 3 of 5     First Page     Previous Page     Next Page     Last Page  New Topic New Topic    New Poll New Poll    Post Reply Post Reply    Help Help   
 
 MESSAGE BOARDS >> GENERAL DISCUSSIONS
 Alexander Haig died  
 
 
Current rank: 2.5 Stars. Next Rank at 2000 Posts.

Send a PM to Dhampy
ELITE
Dhampy
  send PM
  view profile
  add to friends
  
User #: 447286
Posts: 1101 
Joined: May 14, 2008   
Last visit: Jul 30, 2014
Posted: Feb 21, 2010 9:27:43 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

The stereotype of the fat general eating vast feasts in a palatial estate as they threw men at an impenetrable wall of lead is a myth. Yes, generals were far back from the front--but how else can you command a frontage of twenty, fifty, a hundred miles?

It is ignorance which breeds myths. Pray tell, enlighten us from your vast knowledge of military tactics of the proper way to crack a defensive line which has no flank, is, quite literally, unaffected by any contemporary means of bombardment, and whose defenders are highly motivated?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'

List of CHU'ers on deviantART--SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DEVIANTS!

/--\
[SG]
Current rank: 3.5 Stars. Next Rank at 8000 Posts.

Send a PM to DABhand
AUTHOR
DABhand
  send PM
  view profile
  add to friends

United Kingdom 
User #: 157287
Posts: 5262 
Joined: Aug 27, 2006   
Last visit: Jul 30, 2014
Posted: Feb 21, 2010 5:22:20 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

Here we go again, your ability to not read what is being said is astounding. No truly, it is.

Plenty of aristocratic or families with royal connections who sat back in England (most of them were English) and relayed orders from there to the front. Some of the lesser aristocracy was way at the back of the front lines out of reach of mortar attacks etc.

Whats with the stupid smug question? I never asked about tactics or the likes, so your pulling things out of fresh air again.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great site for new games with constant deals

Click Here for G2Play for great deals

Oh and Don't forget some tuts on ASM and defeating DMA

Clicky Here for them
Current rank: 2.5 Stars. Next Rank at 2000 Posts.

Send a PM to Dhampy
ELITE
Dhampy
  send PM
  view profile
  add to friends
  
User #: 447286
Posts: 1101 
Joined: May 14, 2008   
Last visit: Jul 30, 2014
Posted: Feb 21, 2010 5:35:54 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by DABhand:

Here we go again, your ability to not read what is being said is astounding. No truly, it is.

Plenty of aristocratic or families with royal connections who sat back in England (most of them were English) and relayed orders from there to the front. Some of the lesser aristocracy was way at the back of the front lines out of reach of mortar attacks etc.

Whats with the stupid smug question? I never asked about tactics or the likes, so your pulling things out of fresh air again.

The only people "back in England" who told the BEF what to do was the Secretary of State for War until 1916--Kitchener and Lloyd George--neither of whom were aristocrats until after the war. Kitchener came up through the ranks of the French army before being commissioned by the British and Lloyd George was born to a failed teacher turned farmer.

After 1916, the BEF answered to Joffre and not the British government.

I wish I understood where all these misconceptions about WWI come from. Like people who think that attacks were merely running at the enemy en masse.

Myths that don't even stand up to even an elementary amount of study are one of the few things that set me off instantly and I will always jump on you for them. These things shouldn't survive primary school education.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'

List of CHU'ers on deviantART--SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DEVIANTS!

/--\
[SG]
Current rank: 3.5 Stars. Next Rank at 8000 Posts.

Send a PM to DABhand
AUTHOR
DABhand
  send PM
  view profile
  add to friends

United Kingdom 
User #: 157287
Posts: 5262 
Joined: Aug 27, 2006   
Last visit: Jul 30, 2014
Posted: Feb 21, 2010 5:42:26 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

"I wish I understood where all these misconceptions about WWI come from. Like people who think that attacks were merely running at the enemy en masse."

I was talking about the Battle of the Somme, where orders for the British to rush to the German front line.

I didn't say they did this every bleeding day.

Your starting to twist words again. And your attempt to get me into another flame war is failing.

[Edited by DABhand, 2/21/2010 5:42:57 PM]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great site for new games with constant deals

Click Here for G2Play for great deals

Oh and Don't forget some tuts on ASM and defeating DMA

Clicky Here for them
Current rank: 2.5 Stars. Next Rank at 2000 Posts.

Send a PM to Dhampy
ELITE
Dhampy
  send PM
  view profile
  add to friends
  
User #: 447286
Posts: 1101 
Joined: May 14, 2008   
Last visit: Jul 30, 2014
Posted: Feb 21, 2010 5:50:56 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by DABhand:

"I wish I understood where all these misconceptions about WWI come from. Like people who think that attacks were merely running at the enemy en masse."

I was talking about the Battle of the Somme, where orders for the British to rush to the German front line.

I didn't say they did this every bleeding day.

Your starting to twist words again. And your attempt to get me into another flame war is failing.

[Edited by DABhand, 2/21/2010 5:42:57 PM]

The attack in the Somme was like every other attack in WWI after First Marne--sort rushes from cover to cover, supporting fire, incremental advance. The feat of 60,000 casualties on the first day was accomplished due to the sheer strength of German lines and the fact that, at the time, the British did not use light machine guns in rifle units.

Not any kind of brutal incompetence by the British.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'

List of CHU'ers on deviantART--SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DEVIANTS!

/--\
[SG]
Current rank: 3.5 Stars. Next Rank at 8000 Posts.

Send a PM to DABhand
AUTHOR
DABhand
  send PM
  view profile
  add to friends

United Kingdom 
User #: 157287
Posts: 5262 
Joined: Aug 27, 2006   
Last visit: Jul 30, 2014
Posted: Feb 21, 2010 6:12:45 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

The orders were clear, rush the German line, and they were gunned down.

There was no support gunfire at all, the idea was to mass rush for the German line, get in the trenches and capture. That didnt happen on the first day though, and its always remembered every year in the UK.

Although the 1st of July isnt the day its remembered but on Armistice day, 11th of November and we use poppy like pins etc to remember the dead on that day. Poppies were used as a symbol as years after the war, poppies started to grow in the field. Flanders field to be exact.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great site for new games with constant deals

Click Here for G2Play for great deals

Oh and Don't forget some tuts on ASM and defeating DMA

Clicky Here for them
Current rank: 2.5 Stars. Next Rank at 2000 Posts.

Send a PM to Dhampy
ELITE
Dhampy
  send PM
  view profile
  add to friends
  
User #: 447286
Posts: 1101 
Joined: May 14, 2008   
Last visit: Jul 30, 2014
Posted: Feb 21, 2010 8:45:01 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by DABhand:

The orders were clear, rush the German line, and they were gunned down.

There was no support gunfire at all, the idea was to mass rush for the German line, get in the trenches and capture. That didnt happen on the first day though, and its always remembered every year in the UK.

Although the 1st of July isnt the day its remembered but on Armistice day, 11th of November and we use poppy like pins etc to remember the dead on that day. Poppies were used as a symbol as years after the war, poppies started to grow in the field. Flanders field to be exact.

That's the stereotype. Unfortunately it has little root in fact.

Although I have not read the actual orders, commands from above are necessarily vague. Although General Bob says "Charge this position", in practice Major Phil doesn't charge. Especially in the British Army of the early 20th century which relied hugely on the initiative of individual commanders--a lesson from the Boer War.

By 1916, the troops had worked out their tactics and their tactics were used during the Somme.

So when Haig says "Rush the enemy trench", the local commanders know not to do that.

In books, much is made of bombardment timetables. The theory goes that the artillery moves at the same speed as the attack, timed to a rout-step march. Most people take from this that the soldiers were supposed to rout-step march behind it.

But this isn't how it worked. The rate of march was the equivalent of providing covering fire, rushing forward, providing covering fire, rushing forward, etc..., expressed in steps-per-minute. Much how a hundred years before, the doctrine of light infantry as skirmishers was timed to a steps-per-minute march but involved pairs covering each others dashing advance from cover to cover whilst firing and reloading and generalist historians read this as them marching at the expressed step.

Also, first-person accounts of specific events seldom give tactical detail. Mostly a "we went here and these people died" sort of account. Not telling how you went there, just that you did.

Edit- The covering fire/advance paradigm was less effective for the British as for the most part in 1916 they did not have an issued light machine gun widely available. The Lewis Gun wasn't approved for use until late 1915 and wouldn't be issued in large quantities until 1917. The Lewis was the first officially adopted by the British. They did have small numbers of Hotchkiss 1909 light machine guns, but small numbers is the operative word.

[Edited by Dhampy, 2/21/2010 8:49:26 PM]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'

List of CHU'ers on deviantART--SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DEVIANTS!

/--\
[SG]
Current rank: 1.5 Stars. Next Rank at 500 Posts.

Send a PM to COOPCITY20
ELITE
COOPCITY20
  send PM
  view profile
  add to friends

United States 
User #: 166005
Posts: 159 
Joined: Oct 06, 2006   
Last visit: Jul 23, 2012
Posted: Feb 21, 2010 8:58:53 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

(Alexander Haig) A Great American Patriot! Swazilanders have nobody that could match Him, Only in the U.S.A R.I.P AL and SEMPER FI

[Edited by COOPCITY20, 2/21/2010 9:00:52 PM]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vietnam Vet, U.S.MARINES 1969
LOVE THEM SHOOTERS
SEMPER FI!
Page 3 of 5     First Page     Previous Page     Next Page     Last Page
Go to page: 1  2  4  5 
All times are (GMT -08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada). Current time is 2:45:59 PM
Return to General Discussions Message Board 2779 users online.   2663 guests / 116 members.
 
     
 
 
Trainer Troubleshooting Guide        Cheat Terms and Tutorials        Anti-Virus Notifications        Site Help / FAQ        Submit Cheats        Our Friends and Affiliates        About Us
      Copyright © 2001 - 2014  webworks, LLC  All Rights Reserved    -   DISCLAIMER    -   PRIVACY POLICY    -   TERMS OF SERVICE