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Dubs v. Subs and Show "Mutilation"
 
Riingo  posted on Jul 22, 2012 4:57:59 PM - Report post

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I do not know Japanese. I do not speak it. This is my opinion on Dubs vs. Subs and Cutting Shows.

----------------------------

So I began watching Dragon Ball recently (if you are not aware it's the show that came before DBZ, taking place when Goku was a kid).

I wanted to watch the English version but ended up sticking with the Japanese one (with English subtitles).

My question in which do you prefer?

I prefer the Japanese version.

I think the voice acting has more emotion in it. But the ONE huge reason is because thanks to America and what I assume to be the idea of "political correctness" there are scenes which are either butchered or removed. Not to mention the dubbing for the English version is horrid. The script is completely different.

I find this irritating because I feel they were fine how they were. If the show is not appropriate for children then don't show it on a children's network etc.

My example (spoiler in case you'd rather not read about genitalia):

Spoiler:

In episode 2 of Dragon Ball Bulma gives a bath to Goku.

In the Japanese version of it he has a fully drawn set of genitalia.

In the American version there is a stool drawn in the front of him.

Why does this irritate me?

Well for starters everyone above the age of 14 should know what genitalia they have.

Secondly it's not there in a sexual context. Goku doesn't understand sex and it's simply nudity to him, which isn't abnormal considering the way he was raised.

Another example is his conversations with Bulma. Talking about having a "butt on her chest" and she explains they are "bosoms".

I don't see how this is inappropriate. Especially if you're above the age of 18. Hell, even 12.

Another, more perverse instance is when they meet the Turtle Hermit in episode 3.

In the Japanese version he is a pervert, also in the American version to a lesser extent.

Now this part could be considered a bit harsh for television but nonetheless it still comes to my point of "don't put it on a kids' network".

In the Japanese version the old man asks something quite perverse of Bulma (not going to put the exact line).

In the American version he only asks for a "date with an older lady".

This simply irritates me. Although the Japanese version of the scene was extremely perverted they could have, at the least, put a moderated version of the scene rather than reworking it entirely.

My last example involves nothing but a raging violent speech by Pilaf.

He simply states how he would murder anyone who urinated in public or so much as farted (then proceeds to pass gas accidentally).

In the English version they cut a decent part of the scene and he just says "I want those dragonballs so bad I could" and passes gas.

I know not every dub can be perfect. But America does this with multiple animes. DBZ had a number of things removed from it for being "too violent". Too violent? If DBZ uncut is "too violent" for someone then they shouldn't watch it! If you don't want your kids watching it don't let them! I don't think chopping shows is in any way right or justified.


All in all I have lost a lot of respect for American television knowing how much they removed from series like Dragon Ball.

I know we have the FCC to control things, but it's going too far, just like 90% of the American government. They try to control too much. I understand if there was racism or something of the same nature in an anime. But if the show has sexual innuendo, violence, nudity, or profanity, I feel changing it is unwarranted. That is what we have TV rating systems for.

Don't think I'm making this out to be "OMG THEY CHANGED DB FOR AMERICAAAAAAAA!" kind of thing.

Yes, I'm angry about the fact America does this to shows like DB. But they've also done it to Batman, Spiderman, OnePiece, YuGiOh, Pokemon, and Gundam.

Pardon my French, but is America really THAT f***ing over sensitive?

Removing things like pentagrams, crosses, tobacco, and beer. Changing the names of things whose origins come from a religious standpoint. Painting the blood out of Naruto. Refusing to air shows that have homosexuality in them because it would "cause too much controversy".

One of the things that offends me. AN AMERICAN. is Americanization of anime.

In Pokemon they change Japanese food into American equivalents.

WHAT THE HECK.

Oh hey don't know what that food is? GO LOOK IT UP.

In several series they change characters names and the backgrounds to make it appear as if the show takes place in America.

NO. THAT IS NOT OKAY!

It's not okay. Not at all! I feel it's almost offensive to Japanese culture.

I'm not trying to turn around and be over sensitive here. But what if you were Japanese and had a traditional Japanese name?

You come over to America and they go "Nahhhh. Let's call you Derek. Yeah. That's better. Now let's change your eating habits to suit America. Yeah and those pictures of your home in Japan? Yeah let's change those to make it look like you live in America."

I don't think it's right. None of it. Leave the shows as they are. I understand a show needs to be translated so we can understand it. But don't go butchering the show okay?

Make it the English equivalent, not rewrite the dang script.

And don't go "this is too violent".

WE HAVE A RATING SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY FOR A REASON PEOPLE.
USE IT.

I swear each year my opinion on America gets worse.

Let me know your opinions on this subject. Correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

.

[Edited by Riingo, 7/22/2012 6:09:41 PM]

 
DABhand  posted on Jul 22, 2012 5:09:25 PM - Report post

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Dubbed is always going to be worse.

I have been learning Japanese for the last couple of months, and I had a chat with a friend from Okinawa, not amazingly but enough to understand each other.

Watched a couple of Gaki No Tsukai shows and was able to follow most of it, some sentences are a bit of a "EH!! what" but it was only on a rare occassion.

I used Japanese levels 1,2 and 3 from Rosetta Stone, well pleased with that purchase.

 
Neo7  posted on Jul 22, 2012 5:32:39 PM - Report post

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There are few instances where dubs are equal or better but in general the Japanese VAs are going to be better because the original target audience will be in Japan where the VAs will have better training. Another thing I should point out though is in the subs, unless you know Japanese natively, you will be deaf to how cheesy the dialog can be (and it's really no better than English dubs). I think the best example is Usagi/Serena from Sailor Moon in which no matter which language you watch it in, you will still want to punch walls everytime she speaks (though I think it's intentional they made her voice extremely annoying for the most part).

Also it's not so much the government doing the censorship than it is of the target audience. Neon Genesis has a ton of references to Christianity that are tied in with its fiction and they were not edited out (hell the End of Evangelion special had some pretty graphic content in both Japanese and English dub that goes into much greater detail than the example you posted).

[Edited by Neo7, 7/22/2012 5:53:24 PM]

 
Latiosmaster47  posted on Jul 22, 2012 5:41:04 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Riingo

Let's keep this flame free. Don't hate, appreciate.

You let off a page long tirade hating on America complete with:

1- All capital letters
2- Bold text
3- Curse words
4- snarky backhanded comments

(that's flaming bro)

Admittedly in the U.S. the FCC has always been surprisingly okay with gratuitous violence and gore, yet shies away from any form of sexual deviance. And while I agree that certain Animes have been bastardized by over-censoring based on a skewed rating system, why do you care so much about seeing kid Goku's junk anyway?

Also I fail to see how changing a cup of noodles to hot dogs and hamburgers matters. For the large part, these shows are marketed to kids. Dubbed animes being shown on national television networks in America are being marketed to American kids. American kids will identify more with the protagonists if said protagonists do the same stuff as them. They'll sell more toys. That's likely the reason the kids in the Japanese releases are eating Japanese foods in the first place. Besides, if being a purist really matters that much to you when it comes to Animes, you'd be watching the Japanese releases. <_<

I hope I'm not coming off as obnoxious or high and mighty, it's just hard for me to match your intensity without resorting to ALL CAPS or bold letters.

Also I choose dubs so long as the voice acting cast is somewhat talented.

Oh yeah, and by the way: Link

[Edited by Latiosmaster47, 7/22/2012 5:48:29 PM]

 
Riingo  posted on Jul 22, 2012 5:59:23 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Latiosmaster47

quote:
originally posted by Riingo

Let's keep this flame free. Don't hate, appreciate.

You let off a page long tirade hating on America complete with:

1- All capital letters
2- Bold text
3- Curse words
4- snarky backhanded comments

(that's flaming bro)

Admittedly in the U.S. the FCC has always been surprisingly okay with gratuitous violence and gore, yet shies away from any form of sexual deviance. And while I agree that certain Animes have been bastardized by over-censoring based on a skewed rating system, why do you care so much about seeing kid Goku's junk anyway?

Also I fail to see how changing a cup of noodles to hot dogs and hamburgers matters. For the large part, these shows are marketed to kids. Dubbed animes being shown on national television networks in America are being marketed to American kids. American kids will identify more with the protagonists if said protagonists do the same stuff as them. They'll sell more toys. That's likely the reason the kids in the Japanese releases are eating Japanese foods in the first place. Besides, if being a purist really matters that much to you when it comes to Animes, you'd be watching the Japanese releases. <_<

I hope I'm not coming off as obnoxious or high and mighty, it's just hard for me to match your intensity without resorting to ALL CAPS or bold letters.

Also I choose dubs so long as the voice acting cast is somewhat talented.

Oh yeah, and by the way: Link

[Edited by Latiosmaster47, 7/22/2012 5:48:29 PM]

Can always count on you to downgrade me , But I love ya. Haha.

Oh and given the opportunity. I'd GLADLY move from America.

[Edited by Riingo, 7/22/2012 6:00:33 PM]

 
QueenNic  posted on Jul 22, 2012 6:04:05 PM - Report post

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The main problem with dubbing is that a lot of American dubs get marketed to children, and not the original target audience. A very good example of this is Naruto, which IMO is supposed to be aimed at 12+. There is a scene early on where Naruto is poisoned and stabs open his hand to get the poison out, while swearing he will do whatever it takes to reach his dreams. It was a pivotal moment in terms of character development that got cut out.

I could also rant for hours about how awful the Shuffle! dub is.

So far the only dubs I really enjoy are Ouran High School Host Club (Which, amazingly, keeps the suffixes!), Hellsing and Fullmetal Alchemist.

And if the Dragonball censorship is so damn terrible, watch the fourth Dragonball film. It's uncensored, Master Roshi does indeed ask to see Bulma's undergarments.

Some of the censorship of violence displayed in One Piece is hardly different than the guns that fired lasers in X-men back in the 90s. What it all comes down to is censorship removing content that can often be important and deeply meaningful for the sake of children who it shouldn't be marketed to in the first place. Which is the same problem we see with computer game censorship. Parents won't review content first to decide if it's suitable for their kids, so someone else has to do it for them.

 
Latiosmaster47  posted on Jul 22, 2012 6:14:52 PM - Report post

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quote:
originally posted by Riingo

Can always count on you to downgrade me , But I love ya. Haha.

Oh and given the opportunity. I'd GLADLY move from America.



I truly meant all that crap I said in the most positive and non-mean way possible (although it still ended up sounding pretty vicious...)

[Edited by Latiosmaster47, 7/22/2012 6:15:33 PM]

 
Riingo  posted on Jul 22, 2012 6:25:18 PM - Report post

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Well regardless, like Nic said. That target audience in Japan isn't the same as America. Which I think is crap.

You lose a lot form a series thanks to them changing it.

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