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 SOPA and PIPA  
 
 
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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 10:42:19 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 11:26:13 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by LoopDaLoop:

Link

Cool.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the last we've seen/heard of the 2 clowns, though.

"Congress cannot stand by and do nothing while American innovators and job creators are under
attack. "

Oh, wow. I never knew the American congress was so... sweet!

Yeah, right.

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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 7:47:43 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

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Posted: Jan 20, 2012 9:27:46 PM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by DABhand:

I find it funny that people have blown this out of proportion.

They see one sentence in a law and think its the end of the internet.

SOPA and PIPA are formed for one reason, to minimise the amount of illegal content being distributed through sites on the net, it will give them the power to say to a site provider etc to remove the content at once without the need to get legal backing (warrant etc).

For some reason people on sites like 4chan etc think it means they can shut down any site... which is not true. "OMG ITS THE END OF GOOGLEZ" no... no it isn't. :P

Its about time something like this is passed, would mean all those kiddies out there will now HAVE to pay for stuff and that means more money into developers pockets which means developers will find the energy and enthusiasm to once again create excellent software instead of a quick fix for cash.

If you truly believe that the pirates are the ones that will take the brunt of such a legislation, or even that they are the primary target - I feel sorry for your ignorance.

To enable companies with profit interests as sole focus, to get court orders, without any real fuzz, against anyone they deem have intruded on their Copyright claims (which can be pretty much anyone; "Oh, look, they almost showed the Apple logo in a tiny picture of something completely unrelated on that page - shut them down" (Oops, forgot to mention the site is a threat to us competition-wise, but hey-ho.)) is not out of proportion. It *IS* a threat to proper justice. (Who should be served on those who actually deserve it, no doubts there.)

Have you even for one second considered that the Internet cannot be ruled by a US legislation? The Internet is not a US 'thing', mind you. No matter how much the politicians and obsolete record and movie companies want it to be so. (So they can pass legislations like this and enforce them without mercy.)
Fortunately, the rest of the world is starting to get powerful and noisy enough to actually affect Americans (no small feat!) and their politicians - keep this up and they might actually adapt to the world around them instead of expecting the rest of the world to adapt to them.

For comparison this would be like hunting a single criminal ant with a nuclear missile, not caring about the millions of other ants that will perish, or the fact that the criminal ant is smart enough to hide far enough underground.

Oh, and for the love of everything in this world - all of you anti-pirate preachers;
Link

It's not as simple as pirate = bad. (While it's not the same as pirate = good.) As long as you're not at the bottom of that flow-chart, YOU'RE NOT HURTING THE INDUSTRY.

[Edited by PeTTs0n, 1/20/2012 9:28:55 PM]

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Posted: Jan 21, 2012 2:11:16 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by PeTTs0n:

 quote:
 originally posted by DABhand:

I find it funny that people have blown this out of proportion.

They see one sentence in a law and think its the end of the internet.

SOPA and PIPA are formed for one reason, to minimise the amount of illegal content being distributed through sites on the net, it will give them the power to say to a site provider etc to remove the content at once without the need to get legal backing (warrant etc).

For some reason people on sites like 4chan etc think it means they can shut down any site... which is not true. "OMG ITS THE END OF GOOGLEZ" no... no it isn't. :P

Its about time something like this is passed, would mean all those kiddies out there will now HAVE to pay for stuff and that means more money into developers pockets which means developers will find the energy and enthusiasm to once again create excellent software instead of a quick fix for cash.

If you truly believe that the pirates are the ones that will take the brunt of such a legislation, or even that they are the primary target - I feel sorry for your ignorance.

To enable companies with profit interests as sole focus, to get court orders, without any real fuzz, against anyone they deem have intruded on their Copyright claims (which can be pretty much anyone; "Oh, look, they almost showed the Apple logo in a tiny picture of something completely unrelated on that page - shut them down" (Oops, forgot to mention the site is a threat to us competition-wise, but hey-ho.)) is not out of proportion. It *IS* a threat to proper justice. (Who should be served on those who actually deserve it, no doubts there.)

Have you even for one second considered that the Internet cannot be ruled by a US legislation? The Internet is not a US 'thing', mind you. No matter how much the politicians and obsolete record and movie companies want it to be so. (So they can pass legislations like this and enforce them without mercy.)
Fortunately, the rest of the world is starting to get powerful and noisy enough to actually affect Americans (no small feat!) and their politicians - keep this up and they might actually adapt to the world around them instead of expecting the rest of the world to adapt to them.

For comparison this would be like hunting a single criminal ant with a nuclear missile, not caring about the millions of other ants that will perish, or the fact that the criminal ant is smart enough to hide far enough underground.

Oh, and for the love of everything in this world - all of you anti-pirate preachers;
Link

It's not as simple as pirate = bad. (While it's not the same as pirate = good.) As long as you're not at the bottom of that flow-chart, YOU'RE NOT HURTING THE INDUSTRY.

[Edited by PeTTs0n, 1/20/2012 9:28:55 PM]

I agree with most of what you said, except the last bit.

When it comes to music, if you download a song, you're probably costing the record labels... what? 25p/c? Which is nothing compared to the millions they make from record sales (and it's been proven over and over again that music (and movie) piracy is certainly blown out of proportion - the labels still make huge profits every year). As do movies, even though they cost excesses more than games to make, they get sales from the cinemas as well as post-release sales in far more widely available formats than games.

However, when it comes to games I believe it's a different kettle of fish. We're not talking about 25p/c a game, we're talking about a product which has cost millions of pounds/dollars/insertcurrencyhere to make, and millions of man hours, (and on a platform which developers are increasingly moving away from in terms of the PC; more often than not we'll just getting a crappy port than a true labour of love as in the "golden age" of PC gaming). In the games industry, pirate certainly does equal bad, especially when you consider that the sales figures and profits will more than likely decide the future of a game, a franchise, or even the developer itself. You can't say that about a band or Hollywood.

But I suppose that's my own personal opinion, and those we're entitled to have without some daft legislation.

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Posted: Jan 21, 2012 3:03:58 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by Skyheart:

 quote:
 originally posted by PeTTs0n:

 quote:
 originally posted by DABhand:

I find it funny that people have blown this out of proportion.

They see one sentence in a law and think its the end of the internet.

SOPA and PIPA are formed for one reason, to minimise the amount of illegal content being distributed through sites on the net, it will give them the power to say to a site provider etc to remove the content at once without the need to get legal backing (warrant etc).

For some reason people on sites like 4chan etc think it means they can shut down any site... which is not true. "OMG ITS THE END OF GOOGLEZ" no... no it isn't. :P

Its about time something like this is passed, would mean all those kiddies out there will now HAVE to pay for stuff and that means more money into developers pockets which means developers will find the energy and enthusiasm to once again create excellent software instead of a quick fix for cash.

If you truly believe that the pirates are the ones that will take the brunt of such a legislation, or even that they are the primary target - I feel sorry for your ignorance.

To enable companies with profit interests as sole focus, to get court orders, without any real fuzz, against anyone they deem have intruded on their Copyright claims (which can be pretty much anyone; "Oh, look, they almost showed the Apple logo in a tiny picture of something completely unrelated on that page - shut them down" (Oops, forgot to mention the site is a threat to us competition-wise, but hey-ho.)) is not out of proportion. It *IS* a threat to proper justice. (Who should be served on those who actually deserve it, no doubts there.)

Have you even for one second considered that the Internet cannot be ruled by a US legislation? The Internet is not a US 'thing', mind you. No matter how much the politicians and obsolete record and movie companies want it to be so. (So they can pass legislations like this and enforce them without mercy.)
Fortunately, the rest of the world is starting to get powerful and noisy enough to actually affect Americans (no small feat!) and their politicians - keep this up and they might actually adapt to the world around them instead of expecting the rest of the world to adapt to them.

For comparison this would be like hunting a single criminal ant with a nuclear missile, not caring about the millions of other ants that will perish, or the fact that the criminal ant is smart enough to hide far enough underground.

Oh, and for the love of everything in this world - all of you anti-pirate preachers;
Link

It's not as simple as pirate = bad. (While it's not the same as pirate = good.) As long as you're not at the bottom of that flow-chart, YOU'RE NOT HURTING THE INDUSTRY.

[Edited by PeTTs0n, 1/20/2012 9:28:55 PM]

I agree with most of what you said, except the last bit.

When it comes to music, if you download a song, you're probably costing the record labels... what? 25p/c? Which is nothing compared to the millions they make from record sales (and it's been proven over and over again that music (and movie) piracy is certainly blown out of proportion - the labels still make huge profits every year). As do movies, even though they cost excesses more than games to make, they get sales from the cinemas as well as post-release sales in far more widely available formats than games.

However, when it comes to games I believe it's a different kettle of fish. We're not talking about 25p/c a game, we're talking about a product which has cost millions of pounds/dollars/insertcurrencyhere to make, and millions of man hours, (and on a platform which developers are increasingly moving away from in terms of the PC; more often than not we'll just getting a crappy port than a true labour of love as in the "golden age" of PC gaming). In the games industry, pirate certainly does equal bad, especially when you consider that the sales figures and profits will more than likely decide the future of a game, a franchise, or even the developer itself. You can't say that about a band or Hollywood.

But I suppose that's my own personal opinion, and those we're entitled to have without some daft legislation.

I really do agree with Skyheart,the gaming industry does cost unreal amounts of cash to make and the same goes for movies,music well thats a grey area for me, its great money if you can make it along with the fame.$$$$$$$

When we all sit back in the end ita all about this $$$$$$$$$ and those who are making these big bucks want even more its called GREED as we all know, and if it means trying to control and censor the internet for the advantages of this $$$$$$$ then to all our fellow gamers we are in the long run doomed to pay whatever price is demanded.

to finish off Neo7 has put a great and informative piece of information about all this Piracy etc well worth reading

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Posted: Jan 21, 2012 4:26:33 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

Well, if you would've read and understood the flowchart; you'd see that you cost absolutely zero money whatsoever for the companies except in the very last case. Zero. Nil. None. (And even then, it's a case of a potential lost sale, which does not equal a net loss.)

Had you been using their servers, i.e. a service that actually costs money to maintain and provide, we're more closing in on stealing than just pirating. But then again, most pirated products try to sever such connections (and let the retail users suffer from shaky server stability on top of it all, whoopee!).

It's sad to see so many people believe that a pirated copy of movie/CD/game/application X is equal to a theft, or a guaranteed lost income for the company that produces it. The world isn't that black and white, even if it's simpler to believe it is sometimes.

Due to medical reasons I was out of a job a while back, earned basically zero money, and thus had no money to give the software/music/movie producers, no matter how much I wanted to.
I had a lot of time, and decided to try out a few games, Mass Effect 1 being one of them. (I was pretty skeptical beforehand, with the hype being pretty high.) That lead to me singing the Mass Effect series', Bioware's, EA's praises, and later purchasing not only Mass Effect 1 and it's strategy guide (thanks Prima!), but ME2 CE and the strategy guide CE. (Got a preorder for ME3 CE as well.)

All this due to one single pirated game. They've earned money on me. Money that they might not have earned otherwise.


Bottom line is a little bit like; if they blame piracy so much, why are people still buying PC games (mainly)? They're readily available on the net, and yet there's still a huge PC games market. It's very contradictory. So far, most of their methods to fight the ones at the bottom of the shown flow-chart affects all of them, even the ones that only legitimately purchase the game. (Copy protections do affect legit customers. Anno 2070 is a splendid example.) If being very shallow, one might assume that they're only out to squeeze out as much money as possible from mediocre products, just because people don't get a chance to try them. But that could *never* be possible, now could it...?

All I'm asking is for people to think with their own mind, not the one the corporations are handing them. Be critical, study, assess, seek information beyond all the public nonsense. What you do with that information is of course up to you - but think.

And I must say there's a lot of interesting thinking - great reading all of the posts here whether or not I agree with them. Puts a perspective on things, and shows that there are all kinds of people in this little world, thinking in very different ways. (Thank heavens for that.) Even if I seem harsh in debating, I respect your opinions to 100%, and I would die defending your right to have them, even if I do not agree with them.

[Edited by PeTTs0n, 1/21/2012 4:29:01 AM]

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Posted: Jan 21, 2012 6:37:45 AM - Report post  (0)  (0)       Post Reply  post reply  

 quote:
 originally posted by Neo7:

 quote:
 originally posted by DABhand:

Wikipedia only did it to gather support from the masses, they are after all been itching for donations lately.

Under SOPA/PIPA laws it will take a site to provide a working link to any files that are copyrighted to have action taken against them. If for instance Wikipedia in their "the pirate bay" article links to the site they are safe under said laws as they are not providing the direct links.

Neither will google be closed for being able to search for meta tags etc.

Its all been blown out of proportion. And those "big players" as said are only doing this support and "going dark" because they can get something out of it all from the increased traffic they may get for the support.

[Edited by DABhand, 1/19/2012 6:21:36 AM]

The site MegaUpload who was actually decently well at removing copyrighted material when reported (though extremely hard to discover when links are kept within secrets reasonably well) and was recently struck down by the US government. SOPA nor PIPA has not passed at all and this should serve how our government thinks "what is piracy" and their loose definition of it. MegaUpload is a company based in the United States (I think others are based elsewhere) which is one of the reasons why it was shut down.

Moving away from that though, I can say confidently that Cheat Happens probably would not exist either with this bill passed at all as there are gaming companies out there that do hate this website and claiming us as making "unauthorized 3rd party programs" and would not hesitate to use SOPA to shut down the site. US government doesn't give a damn what a trainer is as it isn't authorized by the company for it to be used on their products (see Blizzard's banning of trainer users). Same fate would happen to AR devices and GameShark as well as some companies label those as "unauthorized 3rd party tools".

MegaUpload went down partly because of all the illegally hosted content and partly because of the sheer amount of money they made from it. For example, the company spent $8 million on yacht rentals. It was taken down after a two year FBI investigation. If they were just hosting files innocently and not making so much money from it then they'd be left alone, but it was common knowledge that MegaUpload and MegaVideo were FULL of illegally hosted content.

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